Business Ideas Swap

[danno]

hey cainebean, hows the cold calling been going?

some great advice in here from lots of guys. I'll ad my 2 cents.

Ive been doing this full time now for 2 years. I started out doing the real estate stuff and it worked but i dont do that anymore as ive found that developers are much more willing to pay decent rates, but a few high end real estate brokers that had multi million dollar places still make my customer list.

1st of all the biggest, most important piece of advice i think i could give is BE A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPGHER! Take some classes, read some books, learn how to take proffesional quality shots....if youre having people scoff at your rates, its not because they are cheap, its probably because they think your some guy that put a point and shoot camera on a toy helicopter. whens the last time you had a photographer come to a place with all his/her equipment to shoot a wedding or something, and have then hand you a disk full of 20 high res images that they took straight out of the camera for a couple hundred bucks?? last time i looked, wedding photographers charged a min of $1000 for the afternoon and a dozen prints or so.....

Eveything else really is just business stuff, but, alll in all, if you charge what your worth, and your good at what you do, it will be alot easier to make a profit than practically giving your services away just to get the job. that really hurts in the end because a good way to loose a customer is to raise your rates from what they were paying before.

anyway, thats number one in my opinion. also, very important to live in an area that got lots of potential customers. i dont think i could make this business sucessfull out in some area where there wasnt lots of development going on.

ok hope this helps someone.
Dan
www.skypixhelicam.com

[cainebean]

Dano thanks for replying. I had a meeting today and mentioned your company and "Balcony Shots."

I had my meeting with the real estate company and it went really well. I made 5 sample portfolios with real estate statistics on each one. I didn’t want to do a normal Monday morning slide show so I thought this might put a spin on it. I was in a 15X15 Board Room with 20 different people looking at me. I had only talked with the marketing director a few times on the phone… I felt like I was in college because I was running around getting everything finally finished all the way up to an hour before the meeting.

Couple things I learned… When I printed out 90 8X10’s for the 5 portfolios, I couldn’t get over the cost compared to just using Kinko’s. The quality was night and day different so I just went for the pictures. Man I’m glad I did. I started talking and they started looking at the pictures. Before I had the time to get to the second slide, they were talking with each other and just flat out interrupting me with questions. Loved it!

Next, I quickly found out that my list of topics to cover was a great idea to have going in, but this wasn’t what they wanted to do. It was 2 hours of fielding questions and really just watching them brainstorm on ways to use this service. It was nice but dang I was ready to give them the show.

One of the nicest things I found out was I always figured this service would only really sell to the upper end of the range. I didn’t think they would even consider the service on a 250,000 house. Their words, “This is the range we can turn faster so we would definitely want to use your service on those. Anything that we can do to make or firm different than the rest is worth the investment.” So it was nice to be wrong.

Okay so how did it turn out? I walked out with 2 Full day rates for the owner, 6 individual locations from the rest of the group, 2 hours of free display time in the mall this Wednesday (they are going to raffle off my service), ground based photography for a Xmas party but I’ll be able to show my equipment as well, and a butt load of confidence.

[cainebean]

I got 3 jobs booked off the mall show I did. I had a real estate firm pushing me as a way to help them sell houses faster. They raffled off one free mast shot of their house. About 60 people gave their name and info, which I get to have a copy of.

I walked out with about 20 business cards and 3 different jobs booked. My daytimer is slowly getting fatter! So, I'd say the mall isn't a bad place to spend some time. I also have a meeting with a local car dealer, and I talked with the mall manager about coming in and doing a pano of the new common area.

[MLaBoyteaux]

I made my first cold call on a realtor today. It was a small company. They seemed interested in the service, but I think they're happy with their own images, which are free. Left them a brochure, so maybe they'll call later. Maybe not. :?

It was a good test run, I'll polish my sales pitch and try again.

I've got a photo album with my best 8x12's in it and the 36" x 12" pano I had printed. They liked the images, but couldn't see the value. I'm going to print a couple of our latest real estate shots to add to the collection to help focus on realty.

Going to have to work on a construction or developer firm next. :)

[LoopBaCK]

I just sent a PM to Mark but figured I'd go ahead and open my mouth. Don't hammer me too hard...

This is used to get new real estate customers:
A very successful tactic I've used is to produce a print for a real estate agency of one of their larger property's or developments and present it to them as a "business card" (or you could call it a brochure). Costs $20 to $35 per pop and I note it as an advertising expense. I do some research first and make sure I present it to successful brokers/agents with a proven track record. So far each time I've used this method I get at least one order before leaving the building.

Here is an example of a recent print I used: Red Oak II (http://www.helifreak.com/download.php?id=11171)
The pic here isn't as "completed" as the one I delivered. That one, a 16x24, had the real estate company's logo as well as details of the development below the image. After presenting the picture and my service I walked out with a one year contract to provide full-scale and R/C based images of a new 180 acre development. Pretty good return for $34.

This method won't work for every prospect but so far, for me, it's paid for itself many time over.

[cainebean]

Mark,

Don't give up because I've gone through a lot of real estate people before I finally got the job. Plus you just need one. If you can get one or two using your service, which I discounted only for them, they'll pretty much advertise for you. Everytime they get a new listing they send out an email to all of the local agents. Big email, I might add. So they are really sending out your stuff for you.

Loopback, please give the info to everyone like you did. That was my whole reason for starting this thread here and on RCgroups. We can all learn off of each other and hopefully make a business out of this. Knowledge is power.

One of the agents I'm working for keeps telling me that when the market slows down, my phone will start ringing! She thinks right now the market is so good that they really don't have to use my service, but when things get tight they need a competitive advantage. I thought it would be completetly opposite but I see her point. We will see.

Keep it up everyone.

[MLaBoyteaux]

This is too good a thread to let die. I've got a question, but it pertains to websites and how to get your website to show up on a search of Yahoo or Google.

I've put a list of keywords in a meta tag on all of my webpages, but when I search for "aerial photographer fort worth texas" in yahoo, my website doesn't show up until #49 on yahoo, and it's not even my home page!

So the question is, how do you increase the chances of your website getting listed, without having to pay for click-throughs?

[dreslism]

Mark,

Ask the web guy over at Rcapa. He seem to be up on your question.

I think he even made some remark once that meta tags do nothing any more, and might make it even worse.

I think he was talking about quality links to and from your site.

He might provide some insight.

[cainebean]

I think we all need to have a hidden page on our sites that has links and info about each other. From what I've been told, the more you are out there and the spider program picks up on your data, the higher you'll move up the ladder. But this is a process that takes time. The spider part. That was my reason for starting the website link on the top of this forumn.

Any thoughts on this? And I agree this thread shouldn't go down the drain but there doesn't seem like a lot of interest. I started this on rcgroups as well and it keeps moving forward so I've been posting on this subject over there. But I'd love to have it pickup here again.

Caine

[askman]

any of you guys who want to be listed on my links page can pm me the address. it is a good idea though.

[Nitrospazzz]

That is a good idea. I am putting together a database of all sorts of AP related info, mostly heli but there is some plank and mast stuff as well. I will be putting a link up once I feel its ready for the public, hopefully it can be a good reference for people as well as help my ranking.

[MLaBoyteaux]

I'm trying to develop a plan for marketing to golf courses before spring gets here. One approach I'm thinking of trying is to offer to shoot some photos on their course at no obligation. If they like the photos, then I'll sell them the rights to use the ones they want. If they don't like them, there's no obligation to purchase them, but I get to use them in the future for my own promotion to the next golf course.

Ideas?

[furyphoto]

Hey Mark,

You always walk a fine line when you shoot on Speculation. Spec is not a bad thing, I have made a lot of money from shooting events, and heliskiing :glasses2: on spec ( http://www.tlhheliskiing.com/content/weekly2006.php ) Weeks 10 and 12 of 2006 have some particularly nice shots - If I say so myself!

Often after they see the image, they have to have it. But, make sure that your rates are clear up front, before the shoot.

A keen negotiator, (or a Cheap Bast**d) will always come up with the "Well you have already taken it and done all the work, so if I give you $50 instead of $500 that is still better than nothing"

You have to be prepared to stick to your fees, and defend why you cannot accept less. (Maybe offer to pay him $20 for a round of 18 instead of $150, because the Tee Time is empty anyway, and $20 is better than nothing) At least if offers a good comparison.

Spec Photography can be successful, you just have to be prepared to the type of challenges that come hand in hand with it.

Having said that, there is a golf course about 30 steps away from my house, and when I get my Swift in the air, it will be one of the first places I go to try and sell some AP.

Regards,

Andrew

[Tonystott]

I have tried a different approach.. I took a couple of shots at one course, and use them as a sample to market to others. The additional issue I have to deal with at the moment is that Sydney is in drought, so courses can't be watered unless they have their own bore, so course managers don't want pix of their desert!

Check the brown in this shot to see what I mean!

[staplegun]

I am approaching AP from a Civil Engineering / Surveying standpoint.

For me AP is a tool to make site work and planning easier. The ability to get photos an elevated point of view allows you to see things that you would not see from the ground. A bit of background, I live in the Rio Grand Valley in the Southern Rocky Mountains (New Mexico, USA) the developments that I am working on have some sort of relief that needs to be worked with / around.

I have a planned visit to one of my projects to layout a road through a really ugly area. If weather permits after I walk the road alignment, I plan on flying the alignment from both directions while taking photos.

From the surveying standpoint, I am looking at taking "pseudo-orthophotos" of a lot/site. Once again to help with locating items on a site and determining problems areas. These would be taken from a "high" altitude looking straight down.

I also plan on supplying developers aerial photos of of their project with the design work overlaid on the photo close to what LoopBaCK has done with his Red Oak II pic.

Last but not least, given the right printer (I have one)... Ignore the Swift and the 600.
http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/e435b281ceff248869e774bb632d5322.jpg

[cainebean]

Man I'm glad this is up here again! Knowledge is power!

[cainebean]

Forgot to add my tip, search for adobe lightroom. Its a beta product right now so it is free! I've only played with it for a few hours but I've got to say I'll probably be using this a lot! It gives you Raw control for your jpegs.

[cainebean]

www.castleridgeestate.com

Here is an example of the type of jobs I’ve been doing lately. This is geared towards real estate or construction type jobs but could be used in many different ways. I would appreciate any comments you might have about the site.

Basically, I take the pictures, do any formatting I feel the photographs need, purchase the domain name and finally upload the pictures to a main server. From there, the photographs are put in a database and the end result is the website above. No HTML coding. All of the backend is automated.

The template for the above site is a work in progress. It started out as a manual slide show with basic information. Now it promotes the agent/builder. It has a tab for an automated slide show with background music. It has a tab to guide a potential buyer from their location to the actual property. If you are into 360 tours, it has a tab for that as well. Like I said, this is a work in progress. And only the tabs that apply will be shown. And I’m trying really hard to keep it clean!

I offer this as a service to all of the agents I work with. For an additional charge of $50 this gets them the website, the domain name they want if available, and hosting until the property is sold or built. And if they don’t want me to photograph the property for them, I’ll use their pictures. This is a tool to push their business not mine. If they are happy with their pictures, at least I still have something to offer them.

Some of the agents just buy the MLS pictures but I’m getting more and more wanting to use the website as a tool as well.

[quietriot]

I noticed all the awesome business idea discussion halted around mid January. Is this thread closed or is there another reason for the abrupt halt? I'm just getting started in professional A/P and am gaining a ton of useful insight and tips.

[borneobear]

This thread is truely inspirational.

What's happened to Caine and his fledgling AP business?
Anyway, thank you for sharing everyone.

[Efliernz]

As someone who is starting from scratch with AP, this thread (and DJ's book) has been invaluable.
Thanks to all who have contributed. I look forward in the near future to sharing my success (with the odd failure) too. :clappp

[Tonystott]

This thread is truely inspirational.

What's happened to Caine and his fledgling AP business?
Anyway, thank you for sharing everyone.
I think you will find he is busy making money!! :D

[borneobear]

I think you will find he is busy making money!! :D

I sincerely hope so!!! :D :D

[cainebean]

I'm still here and doing really well with my business. I let the thread go because I just didn't have enough time to keep it going. I was hoping this would turn into a really nice "Exchange" of info.I had this same topic on 2 other boards.

Just an update on my business. I'm still pushing along. The majority of my work now is done using a Bird Shots mast attached to a golf cart. I'm waiting to see what will come with the FAA stuff before I start pushing the higher aerials again. More than 90% of all my business comes from real estate and a 50 foot mast is more than enough to really showcase the homes.

I will say that I'm doing more inside and outside ground based shots than aerials though. This kinda fell into my lap and now it is the direction! A few posts above this one has a link to an example of the sites I've been doing. And I think the biggest tip that I would give anyone wanting to get into AP is don't forget about the ground based stuff as well.

When I first started I was like everyone else that thinks aerials our way is such a great idea and there has to be money in it. There is but there is a lot of different ways to make money with your same equipment. I'll leave it at this.... Take the average neighborhood where you live and ask yourself these questions.... How many of those houses do you think "Need" AP? How many of those "Need" ground based pictures from inside and outside? If sales is a numbers game, and AP is all about numbers, then it just makes sense to ME to offer ground based photography to everyone I come into contact with and use the AP side as the "cherry on top."

Caine