Business Ideas Swap

[cainebean]

All through college I heard, “You got to network to make it work.” I watched some of my friends go through the process and came out on top and others that failed miserably. I’m going to try and keep this to the point because I could ramble on and on about this.

I’ve tried to make some money with AP now for about 2 years. And try is the key word. I had a corp job so it wasn’t all or nothing. When I tried doing both jobs, I would cold call during my lunch trying to find anyone that would be willing to let me come by and speak with them about my service. I half assed it for about a week and then did maybe 2 calls a day for about another 3 weeks. 0 success rate.

Quit my corp job to start a blind and shutter business with a partner and have more time to push my AP. Blinds and shutters brought cash flow so I still just half assed the AP. My partner screwed me and now I’m depending on my little lady and savings to keep me from going back to corp world.

Call me a dreamer, an idiot, whatever, but I still to this day feel and kinda know that money can be made in AP. I say kinda know because my hobby has paid for itself for the most part. Wink, wink… There are just so many different uses for our type of service for me to believe money can’t be made, and decent money at that. Copterviews is my living example. While I’ve never personally talked with Brett, I know by reading his threads, things are different and the rewards are there. Just read the insurance thread on here for an example.

So I’m wanting to start a thread on what has worked, not worked, and just general brainstorming session. On other sites this would eventually lead to a pissing contest and we would have another worthless thread. We aren’t there!

Okay now to my ? and a few things I’ve realized/learned in the last 2 weeks.

1. This business isn’t about pictures, gas vs electric, which mount works the best, who has the steady hands, etc. It is all about sales/marketing, starting a buzz about you and your company, and busting ass.
2. Networking really does work even when you are just doing something as simple as getting your card reprinted. I walked out with 2 farms needing to be photographed. All because I was talking with someone about my business.
3. Cold calling doesn’t have to be done on the phone.


I have a marketing/sales friend that knows his stuff inside and out. He has owned many businesses and has run workshops on sales tactics. To make a long story short, haha, I’ve been challenged to 28 business days of nothing but sales calls starting Tuesday. It is now or never for me and my AP business. I have until Jan to prove to my wife and self that I can actually make some kind of money off this. I’m lucky in that my wife is a nurse so I have about enough money to make it until then without collecting any money from customers. So I’m taking this 28 day challenge and using it for motivation and direction. I was promised I would come out of this with a better understanding of myself and my business and the market I’m trying to capture. So I have everything to gain here.

So now onto ?

I’m looking for comments on cold calling techniques that have worked. Not just related to AP but business in general. And when cold calling on the phone or in person, who would I want to ask to see…

My plan is to start in the county I live in with phone book in hand and visit every builder, construction company, and commercial real estate company I can find. Focus on just those 2 markets.

I will walk in and introduce myself and my company and ask if I could speak with someone about my photography services. I was going to ask for project managers or architects or a marketing person. I figured I would get the run around but hopefully walk out with at least a name of someone from inside. I would leave a few cards and a brochure for my company. Honestly, I would rather spend 29 cents at Walmart and give them actual pictures of AP shots specific to the industry I’m dealing with at that time. It would be easier for me to throw away a brochure than it would be for me to throw away an actual picture. And I’ve went as far as thinking I should just ride around and take construction photos of actual jobs going on and use those. It seems like it would be a lot harder for gatekeeper to not even forward the picture off to someone inside the company.

I really feel like if I’m given the opportunity to get face to face with someone inside the company that “Might” use AP, I can handle that conversation fine. I would be loaded down with my laptop and my portfolio and I think I’ve rehearsed that conversation in my car enough for the past year.

So any insight anyone?

[cainebean]

I'm also trying to find some facts about photography and real estate. I've found a few sites but a lot of them want you to join there group to get access to this type info.

[WillJames]

WOW very interesting stuff.

I need to read again to take it all in, but I wish you very much luck and making the right decisions to turn it into a business you can make the appropriate $ from without having to hold a second job to make ends meet.

I am also going around photographing homes under construction to show off myself. That way I can do it on my schedule and have something good to show to prospective clients. If they want to hire me to shoot something for them, they can do it, if not, I saved time in the end.

My other plan is to get together with a few key to this area realestate agents and try to talk them into some shots of some of their expensive listings for the mls and other various publications that adorn every restaurant and store for miles around Asheville.

Thanks for bringing this up and I think you are absolutely right that we can discuss this like grown adults and not resort to piss matches and just share info and be happy. Thank you in advance!!

[cainebean]

Yeah sorry for the long post but I had to get this out there in front of people trying to do the same thing I want to do. Hopefully after a few months, we will have a nice thread going on with ways to increase sales and make this work.


Caine

[Nate Dogg]

My advice:
Real Estate Agents-
Don't start with the big fishes. They don't need you yet. What has worked for me is finding a Newbie agent, getting them all excited about Ap and using it as a tool for them to get more listings. They have some marketing material that no one else has in their market. They usually are cheap, but a good sell can fix that. Let the big agents come to you, but make sure that they get to see your work some round about way. Maybe stop at the office with a print of the other agent's shot to drop it of and "run into the Broker in charge." If newbie is doing it, so should he. The broker is making some serious $$ so charge him for it. i run at least $250 for one aerial shot of a listing for the big boys.
Construction
This has been by far the toughest one out there for me. The angle that has worked best is a shot of the finished home with the construction company's logo on the bottom in at least an 8x10 sixe as a gift for the homeowner. Don't forget to frame it either...
Developer
Another tough one here as there are no model homes here. Everything sells out before they break ground... But aerials of the model homes for their website and brochures are the ticket here.
final advice
Dont ever under sell yourself. Charge good money for your work and depend less on volume.

My 2 cents worth....

[MarkWebber]

Dont ever under sell yourself. Charge good money for your work and depend less on volume

Agreed. No need to work for free. May as well just go fly your heli for fun :D

[Brady Longmore]

Not only do I believe there is money out there to be made in RCAP, I know people doing it.

Too many guys think that they can buy the gear, maybe pin a brochure up on the community bulletin board at the bank and sit back and wait for the phone to start ringing.

WRONG

Like any business, you have to get out there and beat the bushes just like you are planning on doing. Your grit and imagination are going to be the key to success.


I will share an idea that I am going to try. Almost hate to do it cause I'm a selfish bastar# :twisted: JJ

Ok, if you want to nail some real estate jobs, go get yourself one of those monthly published magazines with all the homes for sale in your area. Around here the magazine is free and is called Home Seekers.

flip through with a red felt tip pen and circle the nice high end homes that could've and should've had a better picture taken. In ours there are always a few that even gave aerial from a full size plane a try from 500 + feet - all you see is roof tops. Now pick out a few of the homes you circled and go out and take your own AP shots from your heli of the same homes.

Now print up the pics into a nice size, do some enhancements so they look real nice, and mail the picture with a business card and brochure to the agent selling the home. I suppose e-mail would be ok too. Cheaper but less impressive. Include a hand written note that says, " I could tell that you obviously like to go the extra mile to sell a home. (butter em up a bit ) Here is a picture I took of one of the homes you are advertising in the current issue of _________________. Please feel free to use this picture if you'd like. I just wanted to let you know who I am and what I can do for you. A picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks ____________


It might seem risky since you would be taking pics without guarentee of payment, but really what do you have to lose? You'd be getting yourself noticed.

[cainebean]

Nate thanks for responding. As far as construction goes, I'm not going to spend my time going after a lot of that. I want to get on with the building type construction. Something that I could possibly get months of work instead of hoping to luck up and find the right home builder.

And I hear you loud and clear about selling myself short. I know what they would have to pay here if they used a plane or heli and keep that in mind when I give a bid.

Barry, we get a magazine like that as well here. I have about 4 months of them stacked up ready and waiting. I've called the editor and they said I need to contact the agents. I figured I would take the picture and visit them. Like you said, nothing really lost. I hope to use the same idea with the construction jobs. Take a picture of something they having going so hopefully it will get in the right hands.

I appreciate everything.

[Nate Dogg]

Be careful of doing work before hand. I was really tempted to entertain the contractor's price (really low) since I had already done the work already in shooting the picture. The same goes with real estate agents. They are notoriously cheap.

Maybe try approaching the owner of the properties for sale and asking permission. Take a pic to show them so they can see how your pictures would really showcase their home. Show them your heli. More than likely, they would love to see the heli fly and will be amazed at what you are doing. When they ask how much, tell them your price and suggest that they split the cost with their real estate agent. Have a nice print made for them, frame it and give it to them for their mantle. (Frame and 8x10 <$15 at costco btw)

When owners demand something, real estate agents listen, but when you approach them directly, the owners may never know about your service and the cheap real estate agent will sell the house anyway without your photo.

Oh, and the magazine: I offered the editor free aerials for the cover in exchange for recognition of the photo and a 1/4 page ad... They use you as a tool to sell the cover ads to agents by providing your service and it costs them and you nothing. FREE advetising to your target market!

I'm telling you all my secrets so please dont come work in Hawaii :glasses:

[cainebean]

Nate if I could come to hawaii, I'd atleast be on the other side or something. Hopefully after this goes on for a while, the need to feel like everything has to be so secret will come to an end. Everyone will end up winning from talking openly like this. Plus, in my opinion, place where this will really work can easily handle a few AP outfits. Competition is a good thing in my opinion.

Caine

[lowandslow]

Nate is right, when it comes to real estate agents it's not so much about providing a photo that will help a house sell, it probably more about providing a service that will help the agents get the listing contracts. Something different they can offer the clients that other agents don't.

[GGoodrum]

Good thread. I can throw in a couple of things. In my case, I really got started in all this because my wife happens to play tennis with several women that are either real estate agents or brokers. We live in an area that has a couple of sub-divisions with some rather large estates. Not as big as the 149 acre ranch that Tabb shot, but plenty in the 15,000-20,000 square foot range, on several acres. My wife was telling her partner about my RC heli "addiction", and she asked if I had any with cameras on it, as they used to have a guy with a balloon that they used for aerial shots, and he left town. I did a couple homes for them, as a favor, and they were actually the ones that got me to start charging for them. They said they just pass the cost onto the seller and what's a few hundred dollars on a multi-million dollar sale.

I have since pretty much turned all this stuff over to my 18-year old son, who did quite well this summer. He earned enough money that he didn't come and beat me up too much for gas and date money. :) This was all done word-of-mouth, just with my wife's friends, and I guess my son was averaging about 4-5 homes a week. Now that has dropped a bit, to a couple a week, but I'm sure I could ramp this up in no time, if I even took the time to do a website and printed some flyers. My son is now back at SDSU, and I don't really have the time right now to try and do this "full time", although some day, it would be great.

Lately, I've been trying to find the right power setups for AP work, which has much different requirements than the "balls-to-the-wall", hard-core 3D configurations we have tested. I'm also working with Andrey Kim (AskmanAP...) to come up with some interesting new mounts that are pretty revolutionary, especially at the price points these will be offered at (more about these developments later... ;)). One of our goals is to have a camera/lens/mount system that will allow a single operator to do the kind of 360x180 degree QTVR panos, like Tabb has done, but at an affordable cost. We've got a very unique concept, I think, and I will be testing the first prototype this coming week.

Anyway, I think the "gift photo" angle is a good one. I also think that if you can get in with a big builder, and offer a weekly web-based service that allows the client to look at either photos, or video, of an ongoing project, showing construction progress.

The whole area of 360x180 VR panos is relatively "virgin" territory. Tabb is one of the few that I know of that have mastered it. I think, however, that this could be something that could a real growth area for our little AP world. :) For just about every AP category (real estate home sales, "gift shots", construction work, etc...), one of these QTVR scenes can be a real "deal clincher", as they are very unique. These sort of VR panos are already quite popular with many real estate listings, especially for larger estates. Each and everyone of those are potential targets, as you can make a pretty good argument about doing the same thing for the outside that they are already doing for the inside. Other ideas include doing one or two panos at a construction site, illustrating what a view might be like for each floor of an as yet unbuilt (AND unsold...) high-rise condo development, one or two panos for each hole of a golf course, or even a pano over that football field that Scott shot for his turf supplier client.

Finally, unless you have son/daughter/wife to help you with "free" labor, to operate the camera, I'd consider two things. The first is to consider getting one of the SpartanRC AP-2000i auto-stabilizing system. This unit does a great job of holding the helicopter still enough, in everything but strong gusty winds, that you can take your eyes off the heli long enough to check the camera view to make sure you have what you need in the frame, and have the right slant angle.

The second thing is use a camera with as many megapixels and as good a quality of lens as possible, wide agle being a big plus. The reason is that this will allow you to "overshoot" the object of interest enough that you minimize the amount of time you have to look away from watching the helicopter. With good optics, and lots of megapixels (10 MP models are starting to become available now...), you can crop what you need out of a pretty wide area shot and still have an excellent quality end product.

-- Gary

[Nate Dogg]

I think that the VR shots still have a long way to go before being accepted by the general public. Tab's got it wired, but he uses quicktime, which is not a standard windows player and is a rather large download. Others have used java, but the quality is not as good and windows has recently dropped java from being included in the windows install, so now you have to download and install java which is also quite large. Flash player is really the future I think, but that requires quite a bit of coding to get it good, and shooting with a lens that causes distortion doesn't work. Its a small download and self installs, virtually unnoticeable to the end user. Panos are great, but they also must be delivered via the web. Stills are much more vesatile. Plus, the older folks buying mulit-million dollar estates in most of the US are still letting their assistants do the computer work for them...

The widest, highest quality lens you can get is the best. A caution for showing relationships to surrounding areas is that wide angle lenses make the apparent distance between the foreground and the background bigger. So if you are trying to show a house's proximity to the water, don' use a wide angle, use at least a 50mm, preferrably bigger. That can make heli shots pretty complicated...

[GGoodrum]

The QT ActiveX control loads automatically in Windows Internet Explorer, after clicking on the warning bar at the top of the window. The first time I loaded one of Tabb's panos, this thing loaded. I didn't really know or care what it was, just what was needed to view the file. The controls are great amd easy/intuitive to use. I still don't have the regular Quicktime player loaded, just this small activeX control that loaded in a few seconds.

The available stitching tools are pretty phenomenal. You can create full 360x180 VR panos from even handheld shots and have it automatically correct for parallax errors in each image. This same software can take a shot from a wide angle lens and allow you to crop down to what a 50mm lens would see and correct the foregrond/background issue.

I've been playing with a number of camera/lens setups, trying to get a good compromise between quality, resolution and shot-taking simplicity. I have a Sony a100 with the standard 18-70mm lens and a Raynox 185 degree fisheye adapter. With this setup, I can get full 180-185 degree circular images, or by zooming the 11-70mm lens in a bit, fullframe 180 degree images that have a horizontal FOV of 180-185 degrees in the long dimension and about 120 degrees of vertical FOV. Mounting the camera in the portrait orientation allows you to do a single horizontal pan and get all the images you need for a full 360x180 QTVR scene. Using a tripod, I did two test shoots of a neighborhood from the center of a cul de sac. In the first, I used the circular fisheye mode and took three overlapping images. For the second set, I took six overlapping shots with the camera in the portrait orientation and used the "fullframe" mode. The resulting VRs are shown below:

http://www.tppacks.com/photos/Cul-de-Sac-PT-Fisheye.htm

http://www.tppacks.com/photos/Cul-de-Sac-PT-Fullframe-5.htm


You can clearly see the difference in clarity and detail between the two, but I was pretty amazed the circular fisheye 3-shot version came out as well as it did. The camera has 10.3 MP and the QTVR "movie" files are 14.4 mb and 19.8 mb, respetively.

The stitching programs not only can pretty much warp any image to it's proper orientation and create near flawless stitches what they really excel at is color correction. In both cases I had the camera in the full automatic exposure mode and auto-white balance was on. The images were completely different in contrast, etc., as at least one was shot directly into the sun. The stitcher did a great job smoothing the color out.

Anyway, I now know how to make decent pano VRs, with a minimum amount of fuss.

-- Gary

[WillJames]

Sweet info guys.

Gary nice panos. The plugin did dl super fast. Those are great!!

What program are you using to stitch them together?

[cainebean]

Gary,

Thanks for the info. I have an Eraptor waiting on a swash with an askman mount and a Spartan system as well. I'm going to use my mast as much as possible so I can do solo stuff. When it comes to the heli, I still want someone watching and taking the pictures. Now this might change as I get more comfortable with this heli and setup.

I'm kinda lucky in that the county I live in has been on the "richest counties in the US" for awhile. Right now we are 27 on the list. Plus, this is farm/land country. There are a lot of neighborhoods but people that have land are sitting on it and it is beautiful. So I'm hoping this will take me a long way.

Greg McNair has given me some pointers on Pano's so I'm about to start messing with that as well soon. WHen I first saw a pano 2 years ago done by a kite setup, I knew I wanted to have a business using this. I've got to walk before I run so I'm going to work my pictures, learn to do panos, and then work on video. I don't think I have steady enough hands with the heli yet to produce results like some of the others around here. Dj makes me say damn everytime I see his stuff.

[Tonystott]

Awesome! Gary, your next task, if you choose to accept it, is to make another pano of the cul de sac from an altitude of 60 feet! :)

[askman]

that is coming tony. he is waiting for some stuff from me. he has been figuring out the software end and giving me input on what we need, while i am doing the mount design. we have it down to fairly basic setup now, but still needs to be tested. I think it will be cool. first setup will be less expensive lighter setup while a100 setup will be at least another week out.

[GGoodrum]

Yep, we are getting close. There will be two versions of this new mount, one for the Logo 10 and one for a Raptor. I have the Logo 10 prototype but Andrey made some changes to a portion and I'm waiting on his updates.

For the Logo 10, I will eventually use one of the new Canon A640s that will be out in a couple of weeks, with the same Raynox 185 degree adapter. In the meantime I will use an A620 which is the same size, but has 7MP vs. 10MP for the new A640. With the a100 "stack", I'll need to use the larger Raptor "HD" version.

I will start a new thread as soon as I get Andrey's changes, so I can post some pics.

-- Gary

[askman]

logo 10 setup can be easily fitted to logo 14/20 and swift, while raptor can be adapted to any larger helis very easily. that is the beauty of the design that I am working on. I will still have the nosecams done for various heli, but this will be a good alternative setup for people who likes none nose mount.

[MarkWebber]

I wouldn't discount the construction end. Job progression shoots are easy money. That's what got me started in the first place. I work for a nation wide general contractor that does AP on many of it's jobs. While they don't pay as much as some other jobs might, it is usually in and out shoots with minimal editing as well as routine work. I've been trying to get them to let me contract out the jobs that I can't get to so I can pass along some of the work to those on the freak. I guess that would be too easy as I haven't gotten alot of cooperation on their end :roll:

[tcgliderguy]

If you are looking for ways to promote and sell photography, let me suggest the brand new tutorial series on www.lynda.com ..... called Secrets to Selling and Publishing Photography, by Scott Bourne.
This is a REALLY thorough series of video tutorials (83 separate movies, in all....) that you can watch at your own pace... for only $25 per month. That same $25 allows you access to ALL of the Lynda.com tutorials... including more material on PhotoShop than any three humans can absorb..... Flash, Adobe Premiere, Apple Final Cut Studio, etc. etc. etc.

You can sign up for their pricier option, which gives you access to the tutorial practice files as well... or buy the tutorial outright on a CD. I've done nicely with the basic $25 per month program, and have turned into an education junkie......

Anyway... If you only commit to one month, you can learn a LOT!

Hope this helps somebody!

-Taylor

[cainebean]

Great tip Taylor. I've been on that site for 4 straight hours now. This is really going to help me out. Let us know if you have any other sites like this.

Caine

[tcgliderguy]

Caine,

Yep.... Welcome to the addiction! ........ and the great part about Lynda.com is that the quality of their instructors keeps improving. Larry Jordan is EXCELLENT on all things FinalCut Studio related.... Garrick Chow is very good on all of the Macintosh related stuff like iLife, Adobe Acrobat Pro, etc.... It's a great resource, and it is always available. I go back for a review on a lot of stuff... often!

To answer your other question... no, I don't know of any other sites like that... and it's a good thing. I do need to get some work done once in a while... I spend too much time on the Lynda.com site as it is..... :-)

-TC

[2_Subway]

Just adding some info to the chat about Real Estate agents. I did'nt read this entire thread...so if I repeat something already said..OOPS :)
In my experience...realtors are good business but most of them are not ready to invest more money into a listing. Right now, the RE market is good enough that a house will sell without the use of an aerial shot. However this does not mean that some of them don't want to be different from every other realtor and those are the ones you want to find. Look for the realtor that is investing in virtual tours...he/she might try an aerial. Also, realtors don't want, they NEED an affordable option. It's GREAT to target the realtors making lots of sales but what about the realtors who want to try your service and have'nt closed on a deal in months. The telescoping mast is great for this,...give realtors a less expensive option that still provides a quality aerial photo of their listing.....you might make less money up front by charging less and using a mast but you save in that you don't have your heli flying around for the same photo a mast can take. At the same time you make more contacts that lead to bigger paying jobs using the helicam.
Hope that adds alittle bit to this info thread :)
Henry