Yet more help with Neu/Hacker combo

[FrittsLogic]

I've used the search feature and found some ideas, but I'm not completely convinced of what to do. I just dropped in a Neu 1521 and have chosen to go with the 54T gear ('cause it should give me the head speed I want). I'm using the stock Hacker ESC, I have V2 690's, all powered by a 10S Evo 3700 battery combo. I'm getting the head speed I think I should at 100% flat line in Idle 1, 1850rpm at the start, 1725rpm by the end of run. My avergae current draw seems to be in line with what my other Ion (Hacker motor/Jazz ESC) is giving me at 1750rpm. But there's no "pop" when I punch it. I get 47.5 amps max during full climbouts (I get over 80 amps with the other Ion on a Jazz), and "old tired dog" acceleartion. My stock Hacker motor/Jazz combo will bounce all over the sky.

I'm using the default 77-O-H settings recommended by Chris in an earlier post (to include zero timing). I read where TomC got better performance by going to 8 degrees advance, but his setup wasn't exactly like mine. I will of course experiment with the timing (I have the Box), but what I want to know is the community consensus on how tweak the 77-O-H, or whether it can even bring out the animal I know should be trapped in the Neu. I would like to try to get this ESC working with it well before going off to buy another Jazz. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Don

[TomC]

Don,

I would not normally recommend 8 degrees timing since this flamed-out my 77 esc, although this was with a 50T gear, so with your 54T this would probably be ok. Maybe try 5 deg and see if this makes any difference. I found I had to go to 8 deg till I found that little extra get up and go with the neu.

Also, check your pitch settings. You will probably need +/-11 deg at this low a headspeed.

Cheers,

Tom C

[FrittsLogic]

Thanks Tom, I'll try that. My pitch settings are +/- 10, but that's the same as on my Hacker Ion, so I still want to understand this motor/esc better. Since the Jazz adjusts its timing on the fly, it may be that I'm getting extra punch that I wouldn't see if I was using fixed settings on a 77-O-H.

[WillJames]

I had one of my hacker 77-O's do about this same thing Fritts. There is some kind of endpoint trick that Chris knows that may fix your issues.

For me the fix was, I installed the CC-110 and the thing was a ROCKET!! I never should have upgraded the firmware to 1.51. The repaired CC-110 is in my RaptorCamera Ship now. :)

I talked to Chris about the endpoints to late to try it, would have been interesting to have known.

[ChrisS]

I think you are just not getting enough load on the motor. You need to take either more rpm from it or more disk area or more pitch or a combo of all three. The timing thing "may" help a little...not sure there. Worth a try though just keep an eye on the temps.

FWIW most guys run that motor geared at 19.2 or 20:1 (48 or 50 tooth gear) for a good bit more headspeed. The Ion really likes to turn at or a bit over 2k on the head. When I have slowed them down to the 1800 range they do kind of get sluggish with the standard kinds of head setups. And for a sport kind of a setup, this is the best way to go as it is much more efficient and will give longer run times. But most don't want that.

I have been messing with 12S setups lately and have been finding that the higher voltage tends to keep headspeeds more consistant due to the fact that less current is needed for a given power (well, that and the fact that Schulze has a killer governor mode). This leads to less voltage depression when you lean on the machine. This may be the ideal way to run the kind of headspeed you want. Not sure, I'll have to try it at some point. One thing I do know though, we need a good cheap HV controller that works because 12S is waaaaaay cool and poptarts are just too expensive.

Chris

[misskimo]

the 120 actronics might be another good choice , the newest one can run any motor . 2 pole or 8 pole . 2 pole up to 154000 actro motor up to 38500.
price isnt cheap , but cheaper than the 40-160 , 469 bucks ,

[bob00]

My Neu Ion was gutless until I replaced the 77-O controller with a CC-110. Lots of punch now. Using a 50T sec. gear.

- R

[BobbySmith]

I had nothing but bad luck with theCC110 and a 85 Boboo and Chris each got CC110S that worked out of the box and they both like them

I have flown the Neu wiht 50 secondary and i cant stand it but with the 48 tooth it is alive
I wonder if the hacker just dont like the low rpm range thats what it seems like

I would have to agree 12s is cool but the controller is just not worth it :arggg: :arggg:

Havent tried teh Jazz yet iam tearing myIon apart this weeked to drop in the 2 stage
Bobby

[OICU812]

bob00 are you using governor mode on that esc and if so what is your Headspeed and general performance, would you consider it really alive and ballistic? Mine with a Hacker 77-O esc and 50t secondary and a NEU 1521-1.5Y feels like a pig in the air, even with the light 5S1P liposm my HS is 1950 with hover, when loading it bogs pretty good. 690 V Blades and only 10 degrees of pitch and still seems gutless. I think mine is far from an animal and am curious how I can get it to have some punch without redoing the motor configuration and gearing....

BTW what is the "endpoint trick"?????

[BobbySmith]

bob00 are you using governor mode on that esc and if so what is your Headspeed and general performance, would you consider it really alive and ballistic? Mine with a Hacker 77-O esc and 50t secondary and a NEU 1521-1.5Y feels like a pig in the air, even with the light 5S1P liposm my HS is 1950 with hover, when loading it bogs pretty good. 690 V Blades and only 10 degrees of pitch and still seems gutless. I think mine is far from an animal and am curious how I can get it to have some punch without redoing the motor configuration and gearing....

Hey throw ina 48 tooth

[OICU812]

I might just try another double gear, maybe a 48T Bobby, do you know what this endpoint trick is? Is there anything else I can do with my Hacker esc? I have timing at 5 degrees and all the settings you recommended through the box etc...

[FrittsLogic]

Yes please, someone tell us Ion newbies the secret endpoint trick.

Please don't make me rip the Jazz 55 out of my Lepton's tiny little chest!

[rfaster]

Is a 48 that much punchier? I have a 48 double - perhaps I need to put it in :D

[WillJames]

My returned and repaired CC-110 is in GOV mode on my RaptorCamera Ship using the older firmware and working very well now. Weird.

I think Rob (Bob00) is using AIR mode, but I am not 100% sure

[BobbySmith]

Try changing endpoints and see what you think

Yes the 48 makes it come alive IMO the 50 flies like a DOG

[WillJames]

I agree with Bobby that to get the POP that my 32-3 on 9.5 or 10:1 SS, I had to run the 48T secondary in the 2-stage.

I know a lot of you guys are running a lot more teeth on your 2-stage setups, but like B, I MUCH prefer the 48T with the 1521. Pop.... pop pop...... pop.... pop....


Right B?? ;)

[bob00]

Hi Guys,

My Neu never worked right with my 77-O - it was almost as if ESC was stuck at 80% when wide open. Everything ran hot.

The Neu REALLY delivers with the CC-110 (seems I got luck and got the only 2 good ones ever made :) ).

I am using v 1.23 in AIR mode. I fly nitro and the super long slow start of the 77 always bugged me, plus I'm yet to meet an ESC that works properly without surging in GOV mode on big helis.

My setup is...
NORM: 0 - 80% linear THRO curve
IDLEUP: 100% straight line (no V curve)
PITCH: +/- 11 deg, w/ ACC to 12 deg in IDLE2
Condition delay of '20' on THRO channel (important - explained below)
I think the headspeed is somewhere around 1900 - been a while since we tac'd it

I fly the heli just like any other nitro heli - no hand paddling the blades etc. - walk out to the flight line, set it down, slowly advance the throttle, hover for as long as I want the hit the switch to IDLEUP. This is where the delay comes in - it produces a nice slow transition from LOW to HIGH headspeed over about 2 seconds. MUCH easier on the drivetrain - no stripped gears to date.

My Actro 32-3 Ion has more POP but the Neu pulls harder - never did try the 48T.

We'll see how this all works on 12s. Been itchin' ti strap on a pair of T-Rex 600 4500 TP packs :).

Too many toys not enough time :D.

- Rob