Ion with Actro 24-4

[ekripper]

Well I'm at 40 flights now in the last two and a half weeks with these new Ions. Lots of interesting things so far so I thought I'd share a little bit. The first TP 8000mah pack I recieved had a cell go bad after 11 flights but Thunder Power is replacing it for me. Had a Hacker motor gernade on me in one Ion on flight 14 and catch the controler on fire. Very interesting autoing down with flames coming from the heli! :) As Russ's seemed to do I had absolutely incredible power and at 7 min. in, poof! Up to that point the system had been perfect never running over 170 even on a 90 deg day. Sent off to Hacker so we'll see what comes of that, if anything.
Had a fun fly in Idaho this weekend and really wanted to take both Ion's so I had Chris put me an Actro mount together for the one. Thanks to Chris for getting that out to me in a couple of days. Had it mounted the night before we left. The actro absolutely kicked ass in this thing! Power was different feeling than the hacker...gobs of torque! Head speed was 1950 unloaded and around 1850 loaded, so not bad at all. Didn't seem to use anymore battery than the Hacker set up and very quiet. Bottom line is this combo is as much fun as the Hacker setup.
Also, I am trying out the new Flightpower 5000mah FPEX packs and oh my god!!! They drop 1.4lbs over the TP 8000's and as you can imagine this things is silly with that power to weight. Getting 8 min. of 3D flight on these packs.
One last thing I would like to mention...alot of the guys really like the 680's on these helis but at our elevation of 4500ft. and a density alt. of 7000+ the 710's work better here. The 680's just don't grab enough of the thin air. Temps are all within acceptable range even at 90+ deg with the 710's.
Well, that's it for now...just a side note, up till a couple of weeks ago I would fly nothing but glow. I have since sold my Extreme's and my Tempest and just fly the Ions now and couldn't be happier. These things just rock. I noticed this weekend that the glow helis were kind of noisy and obnoxious...something I had failed to notice prior to these things :)

Later,
Eric Klapstein

[Russ McC]

Hi Eric,

It would be nice to get to the bottom of the hacker problems! I think I might need to give one of those Actro motors a go one of these days even though my hackers are currently doing great but it seems that could change with ought notice.

You better send those batteries to TP to be checked, the batteries on my chopper when my motor had the same problem as yours got ruined, Chris S figured they dumped at maybe 200 amps before the controller whet up in flames. TP replaced them and sent the bill to some one, not me, maybe to Aero Model or Hacker.

[ekripper]

Russ,
Thats a good idea on those packs, I think I'll send them in. The actro works very, very well and eliminates some weight and drag by removing the reduction gear and shaft as well as a bearing block. The 24-4 rocks but Chris said the 32-3 is the best. Myself and another gentlemen here are going to experiment with that motor as well. Get Chris to send you the mounting system for the actro 24-4 and I'll send you one to try out as I have a couple of them. Also, are you using the Hacker programing box? That thing kicks some butt. It allows you to play with motor timing, switching freq., accumulater(battery) type as well as the number of cells used and the cutoff voltage. Worth the $40 bucks if you don't have one and especially if you are going to experiment with the different motors. Anyway, the actro is just pain cool...sooo very quiet and just pulls like a tractor.

Eric K.

[misskimo]

hey , I sure like my actros , just got in my 32-3 so I can use the 10S instead of the 13s that Im useing now , just to see which one flys best , but the 10 should be less headache , less batteries

Tony

[ChrisS]

I've been testing an Actro 32-3 again in an Ion-X this last week using a second generation V2 FDR...cool gadget. Anyway, I can get peaks in the 2600 watt range with that motor geared 9.5:1...which is nothing to sneeze at. I like the expression "pulls like a tractor" that sums it up quite well.

Hobby Lobby is selling the Actro range of motors now, so availability in this country has just been improved 10 fold. Oddly enough, the 32 series is only like $20 more than the 24 series...a no brainer. They also have the 40 series, which I tested early on. The 40-4 will work and work well, but not as well as the 32-3.

I'm curious Eric, how did you wind up doing the motor shaft?

Chris

[KillerBob]

Chris - just for camparison - what is the max wattage you get in peaks with the Hacker-setup ?

[ekripper]

For the motor shaft I ended up using the adaptor and shaft from a Joker. I just pulled the Joker pinion off the shaft slid the one you sent me on with the brass instert to step it down and snugged up the set screws. The Joker shaft is obviously not long enough to go all the way through the pinion and up into the upper bearing blocks though. The pinion is just supported on the top where it fits into the bearing at the bottom of the upper bearing block. This seems to be plenty of support as long as the mesh is set correctly. One thing I noticed with this setup is that alignment is very important on the motor. It needs to be aligned just right vertically or you get vibration in the heli. Other than that it seems to be working great. Will try to get some video of it later this week as well as some of it with the 32-3. This heli is just to much fun. Keep us posted on your findings with the Actro as well Chris.

Eric K.

[Russ McC]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the offer but I just ordered the 32-3 and adapter. Chris is sending me the stuff to install it. I don’t have the newest controller and according to Chris the programming box will not work with my controller.

[ekripper]

Russ,
You must have got the last one if you got it from Hobby Lobby! :) Just went to order one and they show out of stock now. Bummer on the older controler...you'll need the new one so you can program timing and switching freq. for that Actro. Let me know if you need one Russ, the local shop has some of the new heli controlers in stock.

Eric K.

[ScotY]

Hey Russ,
Can you tell me which adapter Hobby Lobby stocks? There are two types that I know of that have a 5mm shaft. One type has a fixed length 5mm shaft. The other type allows you to fit your own 5mm shaft (affixed with a setscrew) so any length can be used.

Eric,
Could you provide any additional info re. the Flight Power packs? Battery temp, ambient temp, cost, etc.? It's nice to hear there are options.

To all,
Chris says they are out of some (not sure what exactly) part for the Actro conversions and it's expected to take a month to get them back in stock. :cry: So, if anyone else is hoping to run an Actro, it's going to take a while. I was too slow...

[ekripper]

ScotY,
I will make a seperate post regarding these Flight Power packs this Sun. I want to get more flights on them before I post much about them. So far so good though. I really want to get an idea of the realistic flight times with these packs. Anyway, more info to come on the packs in a few days.
In regards to the Actro setup. I am noticing that my main gear is wearing quite dramatically after 10 flights or so on this setup. I think the way I did the pinion is to blame though. Chris I believe has his setup so the shaft goes from the motor all the way through the upper bearing block providing very good support for the pinion to main gear mesh. I didn't have a pinion shaft long enough and was in a hurry to get this thing ready for the FF so I used a shorter shaft and the top of the pinion is only supported where it fits into the bottom bearing of the upper bearing block. I think this is the cause of the premature gear wear and is also causing alot of drag on the drive train. I'll fix this problem and post my findings.

Eric K.

[Russ McC]

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/actro-mount.htm is the link to the adapters, as per Chris I will be using the ACT264 I will have to ream the bore to 6mm form 5mm.

No I did not get the last one, I will be weighting for the next shipment August 6th. No big deal my hacker stuff is doing fine, very fine as a matter a fact! Just want to try the Actro for something to do/tinker with.

Chris said my controller will be fine, I will just have to change the timing to 30 degrees using the stick to program it.
:)

[Tabbytabb]

Eric, I definately interested to hear how this setup works out for you. I need to find a speed control for my Joker and was looking into the hacker with the programming box. Is it true that with the box and the new ESC there is an "actro" setting??

Also really wanna hear about the batteries!

Tabb

[BigRagu]

WOW had a great time hangin' with the Ripper (Eric) at Twin Falls this weekend! Stayed up all night like a couple of drunkin College buds . . .built my ION in 7 hrs!!! [that Dude Abides!] :cool:

If I can get the hang of it you see what I mean . . .we had an "Electric Light Parade" of ION's. Had them guy's lined up ALL day EVERYDAY!

Thanks again to the "Ripper" and the Boyz from Twin!

BigRagu
:D :D :D

[fitenfyr]

Russ,
Get that thing together before Brooks.
I am thinking an ION with an Actro is in my winter build plans. :lol:

[misskimo]

hey , man I just got in my Actro last week so I took it out of the box just to find it messed up , during shipping the motor was loose in the box and ended up knocking a mag loose , sent it back to dymand motor sports for exchange or repair , dang it , just sucks , but anyway I just recieved some 5mm titanium shafts , maybe some will be up for grabs soon , had a few 5.5mm ground down to 5mm ,


Tony

[fitenfyr]

Chris,
Hey would one of the AXI motors work in the ION?
If so which one? I am at a loss as to which motor is equivelent to the Actro's you mention.
I am looking for something to turn the head around 1700-1800 MAX as I want a smooth FAI/mild 3D ship and an aerial platform.

Also any idea what the ION with the single stage gearing and the outrunner mount would run?

Also could we order a conversion kit with the single stage gearing?


Thanks
Jason

[Tabbytabb]

just tried my Joker with the actro 24-4 and Tanic 10s2p 5000mah packs and this thing is insane! Eats my Ion setup for breakfast!

Now I know why you are liking this setup so much Eric, The tanic cells are the same as the Fpex packs you are using I think. I cant believe how light this setup is, I will weigh it tommorow but I think it may be in the sub 9lb range judging from the way it hangs for years in an auto.

I know it isnt a fury Ion but I just wanted to weigh in and let people know how well the actro setup works.

Eric-what kind of temps are you seeing on the motor windings, batts, and speed control??

Later
Tabb

[ekripper]

Tabb,
On the case Im getting about 120, the windings have been averaging about 170-180, the cells at the center are 120-125. I have switched from a 95 tooth main to a 93 tooth main so my temps run about 5 to 10 deg. higher now but the power is absolutely insane!!! I am switching my other Ion over to the actro setup now. This combo is unreal! I can get 8 min. of flight time on the Flight Power 5000mah FPEX packs and thats plenty. Tabb's not kidding guys...this combo will eat 90's for lunch. Just have to auto down every 5 min. to let it cool down. I would say my Ion with the actro setup is in the sub 9lb range as well Tabb. The cool thing about the actro setup is it eliminates the entire secondary gear shaft and bearing blocks. If I remember correctly that alone was around 6oz. You don't need to run a fan with the actro either so the machine looks almost empty as everything is hidden under the canopy. Hopefully I can see Chris fly his with the Actro setup at IRCHA as I'll be there this year!! Also, these Flight Power packs just keep getting better and better.

Regards,
Eric Klapstein

[fitenfyr]

Eric,
How is the heat if you sustained a high hover doing camera work?
Does this motor heat up too much for that?
Also what headspeed are you running?
Could you get 15 minutes out of the pack if you re geared for a more subtle headspeed?
You guys coming over for the September Brooks?

[ekripper]

Jason,
This motor would be a bit much for camera work. For what you're looking for the 24-5 would be a better bet as the KV is bit lower. With the 95 tooth main on this motor you would have a great camera ship/fai type machine. The setup I'm running is turning 2000 unloaded and around 1900 loaded so a bit much for hovering/camera work. These packs wouldn't give you 15min. even with the 24-5. You would definetly want to stick with the 8000mah TP packs. Probably wont make it to Brooks as were having a FF here in Utah the weekend of the 25th and Jason and Todd will be here doing the school.

Regards,
Eric Klapstein

[fitenfyr]

Thanks Eric.
Figured I would have to jump up to the at least the 6000mah packs.
I was actually looking to use an AXI motor. Just to see if it would work.
I need to find the correct motor (if they make it) to compare to the Actro's.
Would the 4130/20 be close?
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless-axi4130.htm
I like the idea of spending 100.00 less for the motor especially if the Actro is overkill for the application I am looking at.

[ChrisS]

I ordered a Mega outrunner today, I'll let you know how that goes. It looks to be a good substitution for the Actro 24-4. My feelings about the AXI motors are that they will be a good sport setup at best...probably not gonna be real hot, but I will try them.

Chris

[fitenfyr]

That is what I am looking for a "sport/FAI" setup. Something that is smooth and yields a 1700 or so headspeed.
I will have a Spectra for 3D work. :D
Heck with the torque of the outrunners you should still be able to do some pretty smooth 3D stuff with it. Just not any stick banging stuff. :D
Please let us know what you find out. They are a very good looking motor for the price IMO.
Which Mega are you testing?

[ChrisS]

I ordered an rcn41-30-10 to try out. Kv of 570, Zint of 21mOhm, Io of 5.2A, 14 oz...sounds promising. And at $165, not a bad deal if it'll work.

There are plenty of motors to do what you want though, look into the 24-5, 32-4, LRK 430-30's or a higher wind Hacker C50. For sport flying with this size heli, you only need around 1500 watts....lots of motors will do that.

Chris