Mega size electric AP ship

[GJestico]

What media does that "Red" camera record on ? Thats a huge amount of data. Maybe you can hang the required "raid" array out back to balance the camera :bomb:

[askman]

upto 160gb hard drive or 128gb flash drive. :) 7lb bare. add battery, lense and sundries will add to the weigh. 20lb is probably about right.

[bighands3d]

did you guys think of using this one. http://www.rcheli.com.au/prod02.htm
for your platform

This thing is big enough and strong enough to probably use for what your trying to do I'm sure Brad would be happy to work with you on this. I know there not in the states but these guys are great meet them at IRCHA a couple years ago. they have a inovative head design as well.

Just my .02 worth

[bighands3d]

here is there head as well it will support your 2500mm disc size.

http://www.rcheli.com.au/prod03.htm

[askman]

that head looks great. 15mm shaft is good thing too. I will contact them and see. what it would cost and what it can handle. thanks for the information. :) I believe that is the best head that I found so far.

[AZ ChopperCam]

that's an awesome head design. so what about tail rotor?

[bighands3d]

the machinics are solid as well the head speed for there scale ships is 1200-1300 just what you need. you could get with them on the frames, to accomdate your electric needs as well.

Glad I could help. Just browsed through your post and rembered there Zealus II and there Cool rotor head design I was going to have brad make me one for my Fury last year. Thought it would be cool.

[WMann]

Hi Guys,

I have also done a lot of research on the existing helicopters for AP work, expecially ones that are designed for carrying heavy loads. In my opinion most if not all of them suck. I like the CopterWorks B model heli, but it has a POS Zenoah 85 cc twin (that only makes a little over 5 hp and weighs around 6 pounds) in front of the main shaft with a nice camera mount out in front of that. I keep wondering what kind of CG problems are going to arise when you hang a 15 pound camera in that mount. FlyingCam has the right idea and someone hear mentioned the idea as well and that is a rear mounted engine. What I like about FlyingCam's helicopter is the fact that the engine and control system is behind the main shaft. There is nothing forward of the mainshaft except the camera mount which is important when you are carrying heavy 35 mm film camera with large film packs. This arrangement should balance out very well. In case you didn't know FlyingCam's helicopters have a 125 cc engine that is made by Webra (I think) and I don't know the hp figures. I think I saw where the flying weight with the 35 mm camera is around 30 pounds or so. They are lifting this weight with a 6 foot rotor span, thats right only 72 inches. I think one of the problems that you are certain to run into with the very large rotor disk that you are talking about doing is a very low disk loading which will make the helicopter very unstable in windy conditions. When I went to France for a contest in March of this year one of the guys there had a fuse machine that weighed a little over twelve pounds which was electric powered. He had a 71 inch rotor span. He had a lot of power upstairs and the model looked like it flew very well upstairs, but it was very unstable in a hover because of the disk loading. For our type of work we need the helicopter to be extremely stable in a hover, especially for video.

I have had a considerable amount of overheating and power problems with the G260 trying to lift a HCS Broadcast 360 with a Canon XL-1 (7 pounds) hanging underneath. I have toasted several rings so far shooting golf courses at 4000 feet or better with tempatures above 85 F. I have even changed the gear ratio from 7.9:1 to 9.3:1 without much improvement. So considering that we are looking to carry heaver cameras down the line I am calling it quits with the vibrating single cylinder 26 cc size engine. I am in the design stage of re-doing the Caliber frame structure as to support a 3W 85 cc twin that produces 7.5 hp. The frame structure will be set up with nothing in front of the main shaft except the camera mount.

http://www.cactusaviation.com/Products/Engines/Signature/85/engine.html

Good luck with the project


Wayne Mann

[fitenfyr]

Wayne,
That sounds very cool.
I have wondered why no manufacture has picked up on those large gas engines.
They are WELL proven in the IMAC world and produce a great amount of power for their weight.
Then you throw in the twin cylinder and potential for having a very balanced, smooth engine it seems like a no brainer.

If I only had unlimited time, a huge shop and lots of money. :D
I could explore some of these ideas I have had in the past. :D

[askman]

have very limited time, tiny shop and tiny bit of money. where there is a will, there is a way though. :) it is matter of priority. this thread is very informative. thanks for all the input everyone. :D Larger twins are very neat. spendy though. DA150 would be pretty cool for heli, but even IMAC people are starting to explore electric. (smoother consistent power)

anyhow, I've talked to couple people who has done some high power ehelis, and was told that kohler actro 32-4 will do 4000 watt continous with good airflow(heli version ) 40-4 would be better, but they don't have heli version for it, so need lot of air to keep it cool. (basically put a ducted fan on it. :) ) I am thinking 2000 watt will be needed for hover, so either should work. should have more power than g260 too, as electric motor have peak power that is even higher. also, there are twin motors if we need more power.

check this 5000watt+ motor. cyclon twin.

http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=5701

[WillJames]

Very interesting idea guys.

I have a set of FlightPower NF 6s2p 9800's on my desk..... Not sure if a pair of these would do it or not????

[Crjbenny]

There is also the Bergen Industrial Turbine. Set up just like the Industrial twin, just with the Wren Two tage turbine. I Laid eyes on one the other day. Looks great. And is able to lift 20lbs. Huge main blades and the main gear is like an inch across.

[askman]

will, 12S9800 pack should be great. 400+ watt of power will give probably 15min flight. I was thinking 14S8000 pack.

bergen twin can swing 830mm blade. 18mm root. it proclude using larger blade. while bergen will lift 20lb, I think 950 is better option for heavier load. still have not heard from rc-rotor-tech yet.

[AZ ChopperCam]

830mm seems a bit small for a 40lb heli. 1000+ is where you need to be. Andrey, what are you thinking for an ESC?

[askman]

there are only two choice if you go beyond 12S. if you stay with 12S, you can use CC110HV, but with this much investment, I would go with kontronik Power Jazz (400 euro rated for 15S) . I believe Kohler actronic also has 14S capable esc.

[askman]

heard back from the rc rotor tech. I was quoted 7200 aus D for wren turbine ready heli. (no engine) that is about 5000+ USD. makes sense as their ready to go heli is 11000 ausD or 8000 USD. much as i like this design, that is beyond my means. Asi gasser at 1800 bucks is much more affordable. they did quote me 1350 rpm on the 950mm setup, so it is the most robust setup.

if I go wtih ASI, figure 1800 for the kit, 300 for the blade, 1000 for the motor/esc. this is tiny bit more than maxi joker setup. rc rotortech version will add 3000+ to this cost.

[miami6]

how about this electric setup http://www.hackerbrushless.com/images/quadBG.jpg


The C50 Quad Brushless Motor System is the Ultimate Electric Power system for the T.O.C. class aircraft!. Producing over 80lbs of thrust on (2) 10s LiPo batteries, the C50-Quad is simply awesome. The all new fully integrated system features:

* Sealed 7:1 helical gear reduction.
* (4) C50 Competition fan-cooled motors
* Huge 20mm output shaft
* Desert Aircraft prop hub
* All CNC construction
* Precision manufactured in Germany
* Weight: 7lbs. 10oz.
* Dimensions: 7.250" x 6.375" x 4.500"

[askman]

too heavy and don't need as much power and it is too heavy IMHO.. any motor that can give us 4000 watt is plenty. plus price is :shock: I prefer single motor setup, but dual is possible (back to back duals will be fine) cyclone twin looks like a possibility with dual esc. (may be dual 85hv)

[swch900]

This is my first post in this forum
Hello DJ i think I've got my AP heli chosen and I'll be ready to buy one here really soon.

to point a 50,000 dollar answere in your direction AutoCopter is coming out with a product that will have a payload of 60 lbs i just talked to the owner today

[spork]

What media does that "Red" camera record on ?

Not to worry - I don't think the Red camera will exist before 5 terrabyte thumb drives are available at Walmart for $15.

[AZ ChopperCam]

well at the very least it will haul the HVX200 or DVX100 like no tomorrow. And even that for now gets me giddy inside :lol: :lol: :oops:

look at this sexy creation

http://www.airstarintl.com/zzz1.gif

[Art-Tistic]

That's Airstar's turbine camera ship, It's been around for years. I have personally dealt with Josef at Airstar several times and honestly his service runs too hot and cold for my likings. H talks a great talk but has fallen short on delivery several times. He's also one of the hardest people to get in touch with. They do offer some cool vario options though. I have now given all my vario business to Joe Howard at ECSH and while he to can not always be easily reached Nicole is picking up the slack nicely. She's a pleasure to deal with.

The only downside with using Vario is the limited stateside support will leave you waiting for parts a lot longer than if you went with other manufacturers. I love the German quality but not waiting for the shipments from there. I think it comes by way of sea-turtle onit's back with 3 broken flippers..... :( :(

Wont somone donate a CNC shop with unlimited raw materials to DJ so we can get this line of AP/AV puppies going?


JM2C
Anthony

[askman]

that is the mechanic I was thinking of using. by staying with stock heli that they offer, I figure it is easier to get parts etc.

cnc shop would be cool, but will take more time to develop a new head/drive. I prefer to deal with existing setup if possible.

[Cryofix]

Design your own head, or dare I say this but call Irwin over at quickheli in quakertown PA he has a design for a 120 system already in place, largest I think he runs is 900 mm though, however his design guys seem to know what they are doing.

[askman]

I checked quickheli, and they have their gasser out, but very little information on it. and of corse, irwin has his reputation. they do have a best price on rotor/tail combo for raptor so that I've been tempted. (230 for tail/main/swash/mixer)

generally speaking, I think I want to go with proven system. for designing my own, I am not tempted. I've help design one head (BTCP) and that is enough for me.

heard back from ASI, and they told me trainer will be fine. 17.5mm grip and upto 1000mm at 1200rpm is fine. I think it will be fine. under 1500 for kit. not bad. 2 week leadtime.