Computer xmtr and BCP ?

[Rebuild]

Which way is best for tail rotor to main rotor mixing using the stock 4 in 1? At the 4 in 1, or at the xmtr?

[Skiddz]

I use both on mine. I set the proportional on the 4-in-1 to stop the tail from moving as it get light on the skids and set the gyro gain to as high as I can without tail wag then program some revo mix in on the Tx. I still have to fly the tail a bit as the battery runs down, but it's not bad.

The revo mix on the Tx was a trial and error thing and took about 3 battery packs to get nailed down.

[Rebuild]

Thanks Skiddz! So you don't mess with mixing (master/slave) function on xmtr for channel 4 & 6. You use revo mix which is essentially the same thing but dedicated to channel 4 & 6 exclusively! Is this correct? Since there are only adjustable ends on the xmtr for revo mix, it is a linear curve that is established for tail and main beginning at "0" ending TBD and the 4 in 1 essentially modifies that curve, or vice/versa, so ya get the best from both worlds. Am I on the right track or is that whacky? :?

[Skiddz]

I'll have to look at the Tx when I get home tonight as I set it up about 9 months ago and don't remember exactly what I did. Hell, I don't remember what I did on my Trex 600 and I just set up the radio for that last weekend. hehe.

One thing you can do to get an idea of where I started from is head over to RC Universe and do a search for bdavison's blade/9C settings. I literally copied them when I 1st got my 9C and the Blade talking 'cuz I had no clue what I was doing (9C is my 1st computer radio) and it got me flying right off the bat. Once I figured out what was what, I reworked it all.

I'm not entirely sure of the 4-in-1/Tx revo mix interaction and I've contemplated turning down the proportional on the 4-in-1 all the way and trying it with just the revo mixing, but honestly, I'm too involved with getting my 600 airborne and reworking my Raptor 50's settings.

[Rebuild]

Thanks again Skiddz! Would like to see your settings you are using, so, If ya get a chance and some time, it would be greatly appreciated. I too am just learning the ropes with a new heli but it is the 450 SE. The more I mess with that, the more I know that my BCP program needs some help! No hurry, thanks! :D

[Skiddz]

hehe, I've got my 450 SE pretty much dialed in.. Lemme dig up the Tx and see what's what here...

THR-CURVE (NORM)
0
45
80
90
100

THR-CURVE (IDL1)
100
90
80
90
100

PIT CURVE (NORM)
35
43.5
54.0
63.5
75

PIT CURVE (IDL1)
22
39
57.5
67.5
78.5

REVO MIX (NORM)
MIX ON
35
16
0
16
35

REVO MIX (IDL1)
Same as above

GYRO SENS
MIX INH

End Points are all 100% for each channel.

Subtrim as required to get the servo arms level. Swash is dead-nuts perpendicular to the main shaft exactly 0.5" from the top of the shaft.

Swash Type is SR-3, ATL is ON

SWASH AFR
AIL -50%
ELE +58%
PIT +64%

F/S sets throttle only to 25%. All other channels are NOR


AIL (Ch1) and THR (CH3) are both reversed (Still using the S75 servos) all others are normal.

That's just about it. Looking at the setup, I'm thinking it blows compared to my Rexy and will need to be reworked pretty seriously.. :)

[Rebuild]

Super detailed, most excellent and thanks so much for helping out, Skiddz! Will do some experimenting and see if the 4 in 1 mix is even necessary.

[Skiddz]

Cool, lemme know what you come up with.. I'm expecting my new tailboom tomorrow and will probably rework the CP on Saturday once it's back together.

[Rebuild]

See if you agree with me on this thought, Skiddz. Revo mix is nothing more, nothing less than slave channel 4 & 6. In other words revo mix is really just a convenient way to slave channel 4 and 6 and is a redundant xmtr function exclusively for helis but with the added benefit of different % settings for mode 1,2,3. That sound right?

[Skiddz]

Yeah, pretty much.. I was thinking about this about 3 this morning (couldn't sleep) and I've just about convinced myself the proportional mixing from the 4-in-1 is not necessary as it can all be handled with the 9C. That's the approach I'm going to take when I reprogram this model.

Hell, I'm getting VERY tempted to sh*tcan the 4-in-1's mixer board and buy a gyro and a brushless tailmotor. :)

[Rebuild]

Now that sounds like a dandy plan to me! I'll quit bugging ya for now and see what I can come up with concerning the 4 in 1 mixer in the next few days. Waiting for some new set screws to hold an HDX head on this thing before I try some of this stuff out. Will let ya know if I get something good going on! This 4 in 1 might end up in the sh*t can too! Thanks again Skiddz! :)

[Skiddz]

You're not bugging me at all.. If anything, you're "inspiring" me to get off my lazy ass and finally get this thing dialed in again. I've been having too much fun with my 450SE lately.

Not gonna get much done on it tomorrow as I'm headed to a fun fly to hook up with Finless and a couple other freaks..

Lemme know how that HDX head works out. I've been eyeballing the HDX300.. Who knows, maybe I'll sell the CP off and build up one of those. :)

[Rebuild]

Yeah, pretty much.. I was thinking about this about 3 this morning (couldn't sleep) and I've just about convinced myself the proportional mixing from the 4-in-1 is not necessary as it can all be handled with the 9C. That's the approach I'm going to take when I reprogram this model.

Hell, I'm getting VERY tempted to sh*tcan the 4-in-1's mixer board and buy a gyro and a brushless tailmotor. :)


Well, I see this Optic 6 only sets the end % for Revo mix. Guess that would accomplish nothing that the onboard 4 in 1 is not able to do. I think Futaba xmtr has a point curve for Revo mix so that would allow you to dial something in that really made a difference. Maybe the only advantage with the Optic 6 is the fact that you still could set end % for each flight mode, but that's pretty much it I think. (duh!) I have been drooling for a 9c Futaba xmtr anyway, may be a good time to invest in one last radio. Not just this Revo thing but it seems like the Futaba solves alot of set-up problems other radios are not able to do. What say you, Skiddz?

[Skiddz]

I don't know about other radios, but this 9C sure seems to fit the bill for me. My neighbor swears by his JR9303. I'm not a "brand-bigot" and I bought this 9C from the same guy I bought my Raptor from. It's my 1st computer radio and the learning curve was pretty steep, but I figured it out by playing with it and doing a LOT of reading on the 'net. I'm no expert, but I can usually figure out what I want to do with it. I'm sure any decent computer radio would do the same things.

There's NO way I could have got my CP set up the way it is without a computer radio. The OEM Tx would not have fixed my CCPM interactions or been able to set my pitch curves the way I wanted them.

I think this radio may be the last one I buy for a long time. I bought the larger CamPac for it from Hansen's Hobbies so I've got room for another dozen or so models.. I already have 3 helis (soon to be 4 when I finish my 600) and 2 planes set up in this thing. I'm certainly going to use it when I get around to building up my 1/5th scale Mustang too..

[Rebuild]

Defeated! I have tried every combination of 4 to 6 mix, revo mix with no to full 4 in 1 gain. Got a lot of interesting combinations, but nothing that would work as well as 4 in 1 only for tail to main mix. I really thought that perhaps between the two mixed parameters (xmtr/4 in 1) something might drop out the bottom that really worked super, but "Nope"! Maybe the 9c Fut would yield better results but I think it is a waste of time, from my understanding of it anyway, with the Optic 6. Oh well! Got it tweaked in really tight right now on 4 in 1 and it flies about the best it ever has, so, I will stop tinkering for a while and just go fly the damn thing. Always open to suggestions though, so if anyone has a secret mix or combination there-of to share, I would be most appreciative to give it a go! (I know, I know, "get a good gyro/go separates"}

[Skiddz]

That doesn't sound very encouraging.. I haven't even looked at my CP for the past couple weeks - been too busy getting my 600 finished up.

Soon as I get this monster done, I'll dive in to the CP and see what's what.

[Dan MacKay]

I may be somewhat off the mark but all I have read about it Revo Mixing is somewhat cantankerous to set up particularly if you are using a gyro. The E-Flight 4 in 1 has a standard gyro so I would assume that if you are setting up Revo mixing that you may end up mucking with the gyro gain a little to see where the sweet spot is so the gyro and the txm are not fighting with each other. I use a 3 in 1 brushess set up with a G90 and it will fly hands off in a hover. The only adjustment I made to the 3 in 1 was to adjust the proportional to eliminate ground rotation and do all the mixing in the radio. I had the original CP dialed in pretty good but like most I found that without a HH gyro I spent a considerable amount of time flying the tail.

Dan

[frankos72]

I may be somewhat off the mark but all I have read about it Revo I use a 3 in 1 brushess set up with a G90 and it will fly hands off in a hover. The only adjustment I made to the 3 in 1 was to adjust the proportional to eliminate ground rotation and do all the mixing in the radio. I had the original CP dialed in pretty good but like most I found that without a HH gyro I spent a considerable amount of time flying the tail.

Dan

Dan, is the g90 really worth the 85$?? I'd love to have a hh gyro on my bcp, but I cant see how it would work well since the tail is run by that little motor instead of a belt. Seems like sometime I just have to give a little input to correct the tail and others I have to give alot. I don't know much about gyros, but it seems like it would have a hard time dealing with the random power output of the tail rotor.

Jev

[WilsonFlyer]

I may be somewhat off the mark but all I have read about it Revo I use a 3 in 1 brushess set up with a G90 and it will fly hands off in a hover. The only adjustment I made to the 3 in 1 was to adjust the proportional to eliminate ground rotation and do all the mixing in the radio. I had the original CP dialed in pretty good but like most I found that without a HH gyro I spent a considerable amount of time flying the tail.

Dan


Dan, is the g90 really worth the 85$?? I'd love to have a hh gyro on my bcp, but I cant see how it would work well since the tail is run by that little motor instead of a belt. Seems like sometime I just have to give a little input to correct the tail and others I have to give alot. I don't know much about gyros, but it seems like it would have a hard time dealing with the random power output of the tail rotor.

Jev

If you saw how ROCK-SOLID the G90 holds the tail of my CPP, you'd understand. ;)

[Skiddz]

Wilson, what TR setup are you running?? DD? Twin motor? Stock geared??

[frankos72]

Well after futher research I have realized that I can't use a gyro with my CP (not pro) 4 in 1. It seem I need a seperate bec/speed controller too?

Any cheap way around that?

Jev

[WilsonFlyer]

Wilson, what TR setup are you running?? DD? Twin motor? Stock geared??

TR ??
DD ??
Twin motor-you mean on the tail, I assume? No.
Stock Geared-Yes. Works well with an 8 tooth pinion 4100 brushless too

[Skiddz]

DD = Direct Drive..

I didn't have any reasonable tail holding power until I went direct drive on mine..

What's the headspeed with an 8T on that motor? I run right about 2050 on my 3600kv motor w/8T pinion on 3S LiPos..

[WilsonFlyer]

DD = Direct Drive..

I didn't have any reasonable tail holding power until I went direct drive on mine..

What's the headspeed with an 8T on that motor? I run right about 2050 on my 3600kv motor w/8T pinion on 3S LiPos..

Interesting. E-Flite recommends a 4100Kv brushless with the 8T pinion and that's what I use.

I have no idea what the headspeed is. Never checked. It works as advertised.

Stock tail. No more. No less.

[Rebuild]

That doesn't sound very encouraging.. I haven't even looked at my CP for the past couple weeks - been too busy getting my 600 finished up.

Soon as I get this monster done, I'll dive in to the CP and see what's what.


Joining the 9CHP crowd. Should have one by the end of the week if it doesn't get lost in the mail. Check this out: I am in Iowa but somehow the mailing address on the purchase invoice has me somewhere in the Virgin Islands. I'm think'n, here we go again! Have sent Dennis at DeeTee a couple of e-mails but have yet to hear back. Jeeeez? Good idea to re-read order onfo a few times before hitting submit. :arggg: Anyway, if and when I get this radio, I will once more attempt to set up the BCP tail with xmtr. I see the 9CHP gives a bit more flexibility in programming than my Optic 6 so it may be worth messing with again to get the tail really dialed in. We shall see! :? (heads up in the Virgin Islands, that's my 9CHP)