14MZ Balance

[wjvail]

Howdy folks... I got my 14MZ several weeks ago and really love it; however, maybe because I flew the 9Z for ten plus years I can't get used to how the 14MZ hangs on the neck strap. It feels "tail heavy" to me.

For comparison here is how the 9Z hangs on the strap..

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/494c9ef4d620e2c146a59c94e06df034.jpg

A friend and I set out to find a solution. Since Chuck has a large mill, he said there is probably a solution somewhere inside some aluminum and buried under some chips.

Here is a prototype...

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/9031e99ce30e669688b05e6399a5c3ee.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/5cfd96068724b0e6b382d7d4a54d16e3.jpg

Here is how the 14MZ hangs on the new mount...

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/8212b3479decac0cc2764caf03de638e.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/c318cbb4b35bf40650b1ddca1e729fde.jpg

Before someone says it looks unfinished, understand this one was made for maximum adaptability to see if we got the dimensions right and to see if it really did feel better (to me).

Have we fixed a problem that doesn't exist? Does anyone else feel the TX is unbalanced or was it fine before we "fixed" it.

Anyone got any thoughts? Since we may make a few of these for friends, any (constructive) input would be helpful.

Bill Vail

[Greg Alderman]

Just out of pure curiosity...how does the 9Z hang with out the blue stand on it compared to the 14?

How do they both hand with the antenna extended? The reason I ask is that I also had a 9Z for at least ten years and was quite happy that the 14 felt the same while flying...something I couldn’t say about the JR 9303…it felt too light and felt out of balance compared to the 9Z and the 14MZ.

cool idea though! maybe making it adjustable so it could be custom balanced for the users liking??

[Finless]

Whats the balance with the antenna on and all the way out? The 14mz has a super long antenna... I know it is not much in weight but when extended it is a long lever?

Bob

[Greg Alderman]

Whats the balance with the antenna on and all the way out?



Great minds work alike...eh Bob! :D

[DavidH]

Yes the stand on the 9Z handle will make a difference also. My 9Z would not hang level with the neckstrap attached using the stock 1100 mah nicad battery. When I switched to Duralite TX pack it lightened the TX by about 3 ozs on the bottom end.

Between the 12 and 14. I chose the 12 because it is a little smaller and a lighter. Don't have any problem with balance on the 12.

David

[RCfan]

Having the antenna out and extended makes a good deal of difference, but yes the 14MZ is still bottom heavy, although you really don't notice it when you're flying. The only problem that I'd like to see a good alternative for is a strap that doesn't cover-up the display (this has always been a peeve of mine with most radios). I don't like trays, too bulky IMO, so a neckstrap with two attach points that doesn't require a mod to the radio would be nice addition.

[wjvail]

Well here are some pictures... Sorry about getting my fingers in the pictures. I was in a hurry. And yes, they are also a little blury... I forgot to hit the macro button.

This is the "stock" 14MZ with the antenna fully extended:

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/43d5d8773d543d96bab329675898a6b3.jpg

This is the 14MZ with the CG modified and the antenna fully extended:

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/f4bfe99ab97355d007802ec8874c911b.jpg

And here is the 9Z with the antenna fully extended:

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/487b8d86b62811e7a0384428524d6233.jpg

The 9Z still has the TX stand on it but since the moment arm is relatively short, it really doesn't change the way it hangs that much. The stand is a little bit of a pain to remove and replace and since I'm used flying the TX with the stand, I wanted to duplicate its feel.

Bill Vail

[Greg Alderman]

HMMM...very cool...indeed...

[wjvail]

maybe making it adjustable so it could be custom balanced for the users liking??


You know when we made this one, we made it adjustable so that we could get the dimensions right and had planed to make the finished ones fixed. When this one was finished the immediate question came up, should the next ones be adjustable?

Bill Vail

[flyinfool]

That first pic has the 14 hanging at a near perfect angle, sust slightly top heavy, Whats to mess with? :mrgreen:
I never liked the top heavy feel of my 9Z since I dont stand on my head while flying. It just looks like I do. :roll:

[Phaedrus]

I use a tray. Always feels great.

[Finless]

So ummm.... wjvail... with the antenna out looks like your "thingy" puts it out of balance?

Whats the final outcome for you?

Greg... Yea... we where thinking the same thing ;)

Bob

[KenChoo]

You know, I was quite surprised (and a little disappointed) that my 9Z balanced better than my 14MZ off the neck strap. But I've since found that when I actually fly it doesn't make a difference (that I can tell anyway). So I've just not bothered with it. Having said that, it would be nice (probably would be a small difference in flying) if the balance were perfect.

On a side note, I could set up my throttle stick on the 9Z to be smoother than my 14MZ (seems more sticky no matter how I adjust it).

[wjvail]

So ummm.... wjvail... with the antenna out looks like your "thingy" puts it out of balance?

Whats the final outcome for you?

Wow did I have a nice reply to this going. It was well thoughtout and very well written.. Overall, just Briliant... and just before I hit send, the power went out for 3 seconds. :arggg: :? :lol:

Here is the shorter version... We designed the "thingy" to make the 14MZ balance exactly like the tried and true 9Z. With that said, we also designed in about +/-12mm of adjustment (at least for the prototype). As has become apparent, how a transmitter feels is as individualized as how people hold the sticks. Some folks pinch and some are thumbs and there is no "correct" answer. We chose to emulate the 9Z simply because it has been out for a long time and has been well liked by many. With that said, the 9Z is nose heavy compared to the 9C which is somewhere between the 9Z and 14MZ.

For myself this is a must have item. Before we made this new neck-strap mount, I had to do something. When I first flew my new 14MZ it was apparent to me that I couldn't go from a TX that hung 30deg down to a TX that hung 30deg up. It's just not how I learned to hold a transmitter. Before the neck strap adjustment I had gone into my shop and taken some 2" lead tape and wrapped around the tip of my 14MZ antenna to get the feel I wanted. Several days later I took my 9Z out to compare the two. I was a little surprised to find that I had added EXACTLY enough lead to balance my 14MZ like my 9Z. There were several problems with that solution. Not only did it look like cra* but the extra weight made the antenna oddly heavy and of course it didn't fit in the TX antenna storage area any more. The obvious solution was to move the neck-strap mount. I went flying again yesterday and found that with the modified mount, the 14MZ feels very much like the 9Z in my hands.

Let me send this before the power goes out again!

Bill Vail

[MrMel]

Mmm, I could really use one of those :)

Care to make one for sale?

[wjvail]

Mmm, I could really use one of those

Care to make one for sale?

I think that is where Chuck is going with this. I think he'd like to make a small batch and see if they'll sell.

I think he's also working on a transmitter stand that will work on the 14MZ. At least I hope he is. He does super work and I'd like to have one. Here is the one he made for the 9C...

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/62c90e60ea5360778e201565008652ff.jpg

All of this is taking a little push on my (our) part since Chuck flies a 9C (and has no personal reason to make 14MZ parts). I think he'd like to put his mill to some use to help fund some of his toys and might be talked into a small batch.

Bill Vail

[wjvail]

I've been traveling for the last few days but I talked to Chuck yesterday. He said he is close to finishing the CAD work for a refined model and should have something finished soon.

He said to expect the next generation to be all steel with a fixed length. After we made the first one it became clear that the hole for the neck strap hook should be made of steel and not aluminum. The fixture at the point the neck strap is attached is only 3mm thick and the feel just wasn't right with aluminum.

It will also likely be much shorter. The prototype was made as tall as it is so that it's length could be adjustable. The production models will likely be just above the switch and function as a guard as well as a CG adjustment.

Gotta go... Work calls!

Bill Vail

[wjvail]

Hey all... progress has been coming along. Chuck sent me the CAD work for a more polished version of the mount. The first was just to get the dimensions right. Here's the CAD drawing for V2. We've spent the last few nights making 4 of the V2 prototypes.

Here's a picture from the CAD

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/25e960a456453b945fd9e5944c5b468d.jpg

I'll see if I can get a post together of the finished V2.

Bill Vail

[Greg Alderman]

Bill, a TX stand for the 14 I would buy! I might try the balance thingy for the hell of it depending on the price...

[wjvail]

Greg... Stand is in work. I've had a stand on my transmitters since the Futaba gold box. I really need one bad. There's only so many (hobby) hours in a day and making the stand came second. If you use the Strap Mount you won't look back. It really is cool.

We had to make the strap mount adjustment first. The first four mounts to get made took 12 hours and are made out of Sterrett oil cooled steel. Now that the CAD work is done on the 14MZ Neck Strap Mount, Chuck called a few friends about CNCing these. It doesn't seem possible to make these one at a time on a mill. Since the drawings are done, a small production run is still possible (if there is any interest). Like everything in the world, to produce 1 will cost $120.00, to produce 120...

Bill Vail

[wjvail]

Here's one of the 4 we roughed out. If there's never another made, I'm a happy man. This makes my 14MZ feel like my trusty 9Z.

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/7ace9f25a899406a6c0d4ff16003b4e0.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/087915700a2e3c312d9998948c7b103e.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/5be16be2dc586160ec8e4af3843d869e.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/b34d4ba6c51f309a666c06cfe9e95098.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/1eee125c909fb736eac721812bc0e44b.jpg

Bill Vail

[mindwipe]

This thing would be nice when the 2,4Ghz module is available. It will probably hang really nice in the neckstrap without the stock antenna extended/mounted.

[g-sex_t-rex]

ill take one for mine............. :D blue if possible :noteworthy