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helicraze
01-17-2010, 03:04 PM
There a quite a few people with .13sec servos doing 3D using vbar and futaba brushless, i think that centering/holding may be more critical.
In vbar my stick response is set to normal, 2 clicks under maximum so the servos are not limiting me its the soft.

OnTheSnap
01-17-2010, 09:32 PM
But vBar has an optimizers to compensate for servo speed. I guess the Align system does not? You can't compare apples to oranges. They're not the same fruit.

helicraze
01-17-2010, 09:36 PM
I do not think they are compensating for servo speed at all, blade and damper types instead.

You cannot make slow servos any faster than they are.

kyalamikid
01-17-2010, 11:09 PM
Interesting theory, but I doubt this is the case. I think it has more to do with getting good results with the control loop (high enough gain without oscillation). Implementing piro optimization is much more complex then just reacting fast enough. The phasing of the control corrections during a piro is non-trivial IMO. There is some decently complex mathematics required.
Thanks :lol: , however it is not my theory on PO, LF-Technik owner Lutz who designed the Gyrobot, have mentioned this many times if you read some of the other threads on this forum and RR on Gyrobot.

However the fact that you cannot calibrate the gyros to the servos will also lead to typical gain/servo speed issues as with all gyros. It is non trivial, but it looks like Align believe PO not necessary for fast servo's (they left it out right?) so why worry. Just keep the servos in spec....

Leon Luke
01-18-2010, 01:28 AM
I got about 5 flights in today and I like it. More cyclic, less drag at extreme cyclic, more pop and power overall as a result. The machine feels lighter and just like my sim machine on G5. Flies with no unusual tendencies, really no transitions or adjustments to someone used to flybars. I got a feeling that I will be flying this on all my machines, if the first few flights are any indication.

Update:
I got about 5 flights in today and I like it. More cyclic, less drag at extreme cyclic, more pop and power overall as a result. The machine feels lighter and just like my sim machine on G5. Flies with no unusual tendencies, really no transitions or adjustments to someone used to flybars. I got a feeling that I will be flying this on all my machines, if the first few flights are any indication.
My initial flights showed that the 3G was very easy to set up and flies very much like a well setup 700, only better.

The first hover was very uneventful, nothing really different from a fly bar system in the hover, very stable today in the 20km wind.

Fast forward flight was completely smooth no pitchiness and tracked straight. The rolls, using both left and right aileron, in forward flight were axial and did not require any elevator corrections what so ever. Noticably fast in forward flight.

Following the instruction manual with cyclic plus minus 14 and pitch plus minus 14, the cyclic felt very very good, smooth and powerful, with no bobble with DR 100% and EXPO 20, in idle up and 100% and Expo 35% in hover.

The machine flies with more power in that it bogs very little compared to the flybar 700, especially in elevator, aileron tick tocks and big ben type manuevers. Less attention to collective management is necessary with this additional power and you can focus more attention to you cyclic inputs. The cyclic is sure and powerful with no bobble at the stops in the tic tocs. This makes it fly just like my G5 dominion sim heli with 13 pitch and 13 cyclic.

Piro flips were completely normal like a flybar 700, but again with more power, you get a more consistent power with less variation in the manuever and the machine felt lighter.

Tail set up was simple like the align 760. The gyro does a better job than the 760 in that it handles the wind much better. The piros are more consistant in speed under varying engine loads, so that the piros dont speed up and slow down etc.

Edvard R
01-18-2010, 09:18 AM
Got my 500 kit today. Head is quite pretty... :thumbup:

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134745&stc=1&d=1263827883

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134746&stc=1&d=1263827883

forth
01-18-2010, 11:01 AM
Got mine, too. And just installed.
http://helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134771&stc=1&d=1263833982
http://helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134772&stc=1&d=1263833982

steph280
01-18-2010, 11:17 AM
Did Align also released the 500 FBL kit with silver head in this batch? I got one on the big brown truck and I was hoping I got a silver one...

Primus
01-18-2010, 11:25 AM
Just got mine for 600.I have something to do tonight.
The unit for 500 is on it's way.. :lol:

lindahl
01-18-2010, 12:20 PM
http://area51heli.ca/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,26/func,view/catid,7/id,4614/#4614

I printed those as a .pdf file, changed the size from 768*1024 to 600*800 and lowered the quality to pass the 2mb limit.

lavi
01-18-2010, 12:27 PM
Got mime, too. And just installed.

http://helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134772&stc=1&d=1263833982
are you sure the tray is firm enough for the sensor to be mounted on ?
I suspect the tray will induce to much vibrations...

lindahl
01-18-2010, 12:31 PM
Got mime, too. And just installed.
I think i would have secured that mount a little with hook and loop. What if the tape let go of the gyro? I think the heli will crash.

HeliBenj
01-18-2010, 12:44 PM
I think i would have secured that mount a little with hook and loop. What if the tape let go of the gyro? I think the heli will crash.

+1. I installed my skookum on he bottom tray, I think it's firmer there. Also, the KDE CNC receiver mount could be a nice upgrade for that purpose

TheBillMan
01-18-2010, 12:53 PM
I printed those as a .pdf file, changed the size from 768*1024 to 600*800 and lowered the quality to pass the 2mb limit.
Thanks lindahl for the post.

-Bill

TheBillMan
01-18-2010, 12:55 PM
Quick question regarding Alignís 3G unit and cyclic servos. Has anybody used cyclic servos that were slower than the recommended minimum speed of 0.10 sec/60? If you were to go ahead and use something like around (0.18 to .015) speed range, what effects/problems would this cause on the cyclic response other than it being slower?

Thanks,
-Bill

lindahl
01-18-2010, 01:18 PM
Thanks lindahl for the post.
-Bill
Donīt forget to thank Leon Luke. He was the one who posted all pictures from the beginning :noteworthy

Mike3DPro
01-18-2010, 01:42 PM
If you were to go ahead and use something like around (0.18 to .015) speed range, what effects/problems would this cause on the cyclic response other than it being slower?

Thanks,
-Bill

I would think you would have to just turn the gain down some. Probably have oscillations otherwise.

MoF65
01-18-2010, 01:47 PM
If you need to use a little subtrim/endpoint adjustment to get a perfect "mechanical" setup with the swash leveling tool, should these settings be removed before setup? If so, should I apply it again after the FBL setup?

steph280
01-18-2010, 01:54 PM
Based on the instruction you should have those subtrims removed for initial setup. But then again it says it can be added later, so it's probably ok to leave your subtrims from the start.

However, I would try to get it mechanically setup so subtrim is not needed. Try rotating the servo horn until you get a hole that is perfectly centered, and adjust the links accordingly.

steph280
01-18-2010, 01:58 PM
Quick question regarding Alignís 3G unit and cyclic servos. Has anybody used cyclic servos that were slower than the recommended minimum speed of 0.10 sec/60? If you were to go ahead and use something like around (0.18 to .015) speed range, what effects/problems would this cause on the cyclic response other than it being slower?

Thanks,
-Bill

Yes I am running Futaba 9252 and it flies perfectly fine. Using the default setting values as stated in manual, 12 o'clock gain dial for both ail and elev. The 0.10 sec/60 spec is a recommended minimum spec, not many servos meet that spec.

Tail boom
01-18-2010, 02:04 PM
... The 0.10 sec/60 spec is a recommended minimum spec, not many servos meet that spec.

Agreed.

I guess Align has had HV servos in mind here. Maybe one of the reasons the 610 Align servos can take 8V ;)

superjoe83
01-18-2010, 02:26 PM
If you need to use a little subtrim/endpoint adjustment to get a perfect "mechanical" setup with the swash leveling tool, should these settings be removed before setup? If so, should I apply it again after the FBL setup?

i would think that if you did a rebind after you got your arms at 90 before hooking up the 3G it would be fine since the 3G wouldn't know you had subtrim, it would take the receiver values as being zero or center

lindahl
01-18-2010, 02:55 PM
Maybe one of the reasons the 610 Align servos can take 8V ;)
Can take is not really the same as being spec on them. DS610 has the spec of 0.10 at 4.8v. 0.08 @ 6v but no 8v rating.
http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=17_219&products_id=4163

JR8717/8915 can also take 8V but has 6V spec.

Tail boom
01-18-2010, 03:06 PM
Can take is not really the same as being spec on them. DS610 has the spec of 0.10 at 4.8v. 0.08 @ 6v but no 8v rating.
http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=17_219&products_id=4163

JR8717/8915 can also take 8V but has 6V spec.

Oops, I was unaware of the fact that the 610 meets all of the 700 FBL specs at 6V already (.10 sec / 12kg) :shock:.

CWasko36
01-18-2010, 03:29 PM
Are there any US distributors now shipping these to the general public?