Hacker Response

[ekripper]

As I mention in my Actro post I had one of my Hacker setups go bad on me and I sent it back to Hacker last week. As Russ's did, mine had unbelievable power for this particular flight then let loose at the 7min. mark. Got an email from Chris at Hacker today that said the failure was covered under warranty so they would replace both the controller and motor when they have them in stock. No info as to what might have caused the failure though. Their response was very prompt and they seem to be standing behind the product so at least that's good news for us.

Regards,
Eric Klapstein

[ChrisS]

Hi all

I spoke with Sean recently about this failure mode. He is positive that what is happening is the motors are being overheated. What happens is that as the magnets in the motor heat up they begin to demagnetize. As this happens, the Kv of the motor begins to rise and the motor spins faster, hence the perceived increase in power. Unfortunately, it's a short lived thing as the motors temp rises quite fast and it soon gets to the destruction point.
It takes like 300 degrees internal before the motor begins to destruct...demag, come unglued, etc.
We always thought that as long as we stayed under the 180 F mark on the outside of the motor, we'd be O.K. This is still true, but as I mentioned above, the thermal curve is quite steep and hard to slow down or stop once you've begun climbing it. In my own flying of these motors, I have noted that it does not take long at all to go from 180 to well over 220.
It would seem that the best advice in this situation is to become REALLY in tuned with how your flying heats the power system. I would suggest cutting flights shorter than usual...at least during the hotter months. Maybe pull back pitch curves or swing slightly shorter blades.
You could try to characterize the thermal properties of your system as it relates to your flying... much the same way as you might have done with your batteries.

Chris

[fitenfyr]

No offense and I am not trying to start an argument here, but WOW that is a lot to swallow on a system of this caliber. I mean having to worry about setup issues that should well be within the reach of this aircraft?
Is Hacker doing something about making the motors more thermally protected?
I am wanting to build an ION as a winter project, but frankly the Actro motors are looking to be the better investment right now.
I have seen Russ, Mike, Keith, Wayne and Rob fly theirs and I don't think any of them are working the heli too hard to have these motors failing due to overheating on the users part.
Well Doc sure is trying. :D When it is flying. :D
I mean these guys are watching the temps and flying pretty conservative flights with them.
New technology has bugs so I guess this is an expensive learning curve on Hackers part. Hopefully they keep backing these motors up and don't just start blaming it on the end user after these first couple failures.

[Shannon Davis]

I think you can fly hard as long as you give it a little break every few minutes(5). Shoot an auto or do a few hovering moves. :D Just a thought.

[Tabbytabb]

Autos are probably a good idea, but mine gets hot just hovering so that probably wont help too much.

I think the Actros and other large outrunners will be the wave of the future with large electrics. They stay so cool, provide awesome power (Ben is getting almost 4000W out of his 32-3 I think) and dont seem to have the inherent problems that are being reported about the hackers in the Ions.

Just my 2 cents, I have only tried outrunners on helis as large as a logo 10 but just got 2 jokers that will use the same battery setup as my Ion so I will have a good comparison on the power each setup makes. I know with my smaller machines they felt much torquier with outrunners.

Tabb

[ChrisS]

Autos are a great way to keep things cool. Anything to strip heat from the motor is a good idea.

This is not really a bad thing, just something to be aware of and work with...like not tweeking in the needle valves on an engine, even though it would give a little more power, for a little while.

If you consider that the motor is producing a minimum of 1000 watts and a maximum of well over 2500 watts for 8 to 10 minutes on average.

Do the same with any motor and you'll find it's weaknesses.

Yup, this is the edge in modelling right now, and it's getting better all the time. Hacker is leading the way and standing behind what they sell.

Chris

[fitenfyr]

Chris,
I am glad Hacker is willing to back these motors. I hope it stays that way for the duration as I am sure it will. I have heard nothing but praise for them from the guys I know flying their motors.

but mine gets hot just hovering so that probably wont help too much.

I would agree there.
Hovering would be the worst thing you could do IMO.
Russ and Rob were talking about flying backwards more often to force more air into the canopy.
I think with the current heat build up a couple "gills" in the canopy would be the best way to improve airflow a bit more over the engine.
Heck how about a water cooled motor like computers use these days. :D
Oh guess that would add a bit too much weight huh? :D :D :D

[Tabbytabb]

another thought I had was replace the little fan with a gws EDF 50 to really move some air :)

Amp draw would be much higher but still not that big of an issue.

Tabb

[vitek]

Autos are a great way to keep things cool. Anything to strip heat from the motor is a good idea.


Maybe I am having trouble adjusting to the SAB blades, but the Ion-X autos like a R30.

Travis

[WayneR]

Surely it is not that bad in an auto. Actually I just raise the trim in hold ( seperate the Throtle trim on your 9Z) to give it a little more energy at the bottom of an auto. Just make sure you use another switch to cut the engine before spooling back up. Hot starts are not pretty with this ship.

[KillerBob]

Mine autos exactly like my Extreme did - with motor at complete halt
/Lars

[jwooten]

Just from my own experience, as it gets hotter outside the batteries are putting out more power for the motor. More power means more heat. Hotter outside air mean less cooling. It all equals one hot motor. I have put the Actro motors over 300 F. They don't like that much.

Jimmy