Power upgrade

[Konrad78]

Just upgraded this setup
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=3318&pictureid=30268
,,,to this :YeaBaby:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=3318&pictureid=30269
And 11T and four 4s lipos on their way :YeaBaby:

This is my first time running a governor and my first non-stock-power-setup, so Im very exited :)
Anyone else running this setup?

[jockstrap]

I have the scorp -8 with std esc on my pro and it hoots ... so you better be prepared for a fairly quick heli... :thumbup:

[ken22golf]

Just upgraded this setup

And 11T and four 4s lipos on their way :YeaBaby:

This is my first time running a governor and my first non-stock-power-setup, so Im very exited :)
Anyone else running this setup?

Yeah I ran this exact setup for a while. It was swinging over 3400 rpm at 60% throttle with 11t and the heli was a freaking rocket. Everything got much hotter than I liked though, and my packs were cooking and ESC was on the verge of shutting down from overheating. I moved my ESC to the side of the heli under the main gear to get some airflow (which helped a lot).

What packs did you get?

[Konrad78]

Yeah I ran this exact setup for a while. It was swinging over 3400 rpm at 60% throttle with 11t and the heli was a freaking rocket. Everything got much hotter than I liked though, and my packs were cooking and ESC was on the verge of shutting down from overheating. I moved my ESC to the side of the heli under the main gear to get some airflow (which helped a lot).

What packs did you get?

That doesnt sound too good...
Got the Flightmaxx 4s 2200mah 20C lipos. Is the motor puffing 4s batteries at 60% throttle?:shock:
Should I run a ubec just in case?

[jockstrap]

maybe run a 10 tooth pinion instead then... will lower the load on the motor & Batts and lower the HS as it seems that you will have more than enough anyway.

[ken22golf]

I ran an external BEC to drop the ESC temp a little, but it didn't do much (remember the Jazz's internal BEC is a switching BEC, so it's not producing too much heat anyway).

I have those same exact packs. I've got 65 cycles on them, and they're still going. They're not nearly as strong as new, but I still get the same flight times as before. You'll get at least 5 minutes of flight with these.

I'm not the only one who had these issues though. It seems a CC ESC and the -8 on 4S runs fine, but the Jazz, -8, 4S, and ~3300HS or more =heat. The Jazz seems to shut down if it gets any hotter than 52 ºC, but it's a very nice, slow shutdown.

I highly recommend mounting the ESC on the side of the frame. I made a small CF mounting bracket for mine. You can see the pics here (http://helifreak.com/album.php?albumid=3008).

[ken22golf]

maybe run a 10 tooth pinion instead then... will lower the load on the motor & Batts and lower the HS as it seems that you will have more than enough anyway.

I tried a 10t pinion, and it just wasn't impressive. I would get 6 minute flights and everything did stay nice and cool, but it didn't seem to run any better than a 3S setup.

I still recommend giving a 10t pinion a shot though if the 11t gives you the same results I got. I really didn't do too much testing with it because I ended up going with the Neu motor.

And to explain further, with your setup I got over 3400 rpm at 60% throttle. I got 5 minutes of flight following the 80% rule. My packs and ESC were getting ~49ºC and the motor was getting ~52ºC. The ambient temps were also 35ºC. Some people may not consider those temps too hot, but they hotter than i wanted.

[legine]

That doesnt sound too good...
Got the Flightmaxx 4s 2200mah 20C lipos. Is the motor puffing 4s batteries at 60% throttle?:shock:
Should I run a ubec just in case?

Ahh, should have gone with at least 25C if your into anything other than hovering and sport flying.
If you want, you could get a 10t pinion and just run it un-governed. It would be easier on your ESC.

[snjbird]

The 2221-8 is rated for 48,000 RPM

A 4S pack is 16.8 volts at peak Voltage

The 2221-8 spins 3595 RPM per volt

So

3595 X 16.8 = 60,395 RPM Not recommended

Your only 12,000 over redline?

[ken22golf]

The -8 will work, and there are plenty of people that run it and will recommend it because it's so powerful.

The 20C packs have worked well for me, but if he runs them too hard they will lose their punch quickly.

If he's running an 11t pinion and running 3300HS governed, the motor RPM will be 45000.

I was just giving my personal experience and saying that when I ran it with the Jazz and went over maybe 3400rpm (which puts it right at the motor's max rpm range), things started getting very hot.

[Konrad78]

Yeah I ran this exact setup for a while. It was swinging over 3400 rpm at 60% throttle with 11t and the heli was a freaking rocket.


This HS calculator says 3100 rpm at 65% throttle. Anyone else tached their hs with this setup?

http://helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=3318&pictureid=30316

[Konrad78]

Ahh, should have gone with at least 25C if your into anything other than hovering and sport flying.
If you want, you could get a 10t pinion and just run it un-governed. It would be easier on your ESC.

Sounds more like i got too much power going here :roll:

[ken22golf]

This HS calculator says 3100 rpm at 65% throttle. Anyone else tached their hs with this setup?



Yes, my HS was tached. My neu motor (which is rated at 3400Kv) ran a consistent 3350rpm at 60% throttle. The HS calculator was pretty far off for me. I had made a thread about it (in which MrMel himself replied), but I can't find it...

I recommend trying an 11t pinion to begin with (since the 10t will make the motor turn even higher RPM), but don't get too crazy and let the packs break in gently. I also recommend getting a 10t pinion just in case though.

Also here is some great information about the jazz ESC : http://www.readyheli.com/kb_results.asp?ID=5

[Helipsyko]

Im running the 2010 on 8s, about 50000rpm at 3400, no problems at all.
There is a LOT of people running the -8 on 4s and Jazz with no problems, Ken you are the only one I have heard of.

[ken22golf]

Im running the 2010 on 8s, about 50000rpm at 3400, no problems at all.
There is a LOT of people running the -8 on 4s and Jazz with no problems, Ken you are the only one I have heard of.

I know of several running a CC ESC and -8 on 4S with no problems. Haven't seen too many running the Jazz, -8, and 4S. The only other person I know of that ran/runs the combo was 02Duece I think. He had contacted me in a PM a while back after I made a thread about my combo running so hot, and he said he was having the same problem.

[snjbird]

I think gov the -8 will be fine, I just would not run it flat line on 4S...

[Helipsyko]

100% is not good at all, too much.
I have ET'd a -8 on 20c packs, 550+ watts on climb outs, did not test hard moves.
Belive me, the power is RAW, maybe it would have been more with 25-30c, but still raw.

There are many threads about -8 on 4s, here is one http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=170431&highlight=scorpion

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=179821&highlight=poll

[Konrad78]

The ambient temps were also 35ºC. Some people may not consider those temps too hot, but they hotter than i wanted.

Yes, but i would rather fly in 35ºC, cause its 55º warmer than the -20ºC we got here in norway:lol:

Im going to maiden my setup today or tomorrow. My IR temp measuring tool has left my toolbox:dontknowso i'll have to trust my ol' finger to do the job.
Luckily, the world is like a big intercooler nowadays, so my esc might be fine anyway :)

[Konrad78]

Maiden today.. God dang! It moved FAST :Bang
The motor made this even screaming sound no matter how hard i pushed the collective. No bogging at all!

Things got hot, but not burning hot.

[jockstrap]

Time to try a 10T pinion - seems like you have heaps of power - just gov at 65% is too low in the motor efficiency range... using a 10T should allow you to set a higher gov throttle and hopefully come down cooler - which = back to back flying and less stress on your packs.

good stuff - let us know how it goes after a few weeks of flying.

[ken22golf]

It's quite fun to fly isn't it? :) Welcome to the 4S club.

If you think it's getting too hot, the 10t is always an option. I ran a 10t at 3100HS with the -8 and the power wasn't there at all, everything stayed really cool and I got 6 minutes of flight, but it felt like it had less power than a 3S setup...I really didn't test it too much, as I switched to the Neu motor after that. I've run the jazz as low as 60% and the motor/ESC run perfectly (according to the page on readyheli, it can be run as low as 57 w/out any ill effects). I currently run mine at 60% with the neu motor and everything just barely gets warm (with 3350 HS). The Jazz is really an awesome ESC...

[Konrad78]

It's quite fun to fly isn't it? :) Welcome to the 4S club.

If you think it's getting too hot, the 10t is always an option. I ran a 10t at 3100HS with the -8 and the power wasn't there at all, everything stayed really cool and I got 6 minutes of flight, but it felt like it had less power than a 3S setup...I really didn't test it too much, as I switched to the Neu motor after that. I've run the jazz as low as 60% and the motor/ESC run perfectly (according to the page on readyheli, it can be run as low as 57 w/out any ill effects). I currently run mine at 60% with the neu motor and everything just barely gets warm (with 3350 HS). The Jazz is really an awesome ESC...

Thank you! And its a fine club to be in! :thumbup:

Im gonna run the 11t for now, at least as long as the temp outside is below zero.
Im also running 60%, and Im gonna tach my HS, and report back here.

What is max recomended(non lethal;))HS for a 450 Pro with stock blades?

[ken22golf]

I never tached my HS with the -8 and 11t, but I'd expect it was maybe 3450-3500 rpm...not entirely necessary but fun.

I've run my Pro at ~3350 rpm since, and it's handled it beautifully.

[Helipsyko]

Running 3300 with the 335 blades, was running 3450 with stock.
3400 gives extra stabillity and of course speed.
Takes high hs much better than the V2.

Was running the -8 with 11t at 3200hs on my old V2, was really perfect setup.

[Stephen L]

Anyone else running this setup?

Similar but with a Jazz 55.