CB100 owners (that also have mSR's)

[RaptorStorm]

Hi everyone.

I am new to the helicopter sport; introduced to it over Christmas.

I have a mSR right now and would like to get a 2nd indoor bird. Currently I am looking at getting the CB100 as a 2nd indoor bird because I would like to mess around with the tinkering side of things too.

Here's the issue...

I have a problem that will limit me in how advanced I will ever be able to get in this sport. I suffered severe trauma to both my hands during my tours in Iraq. Matter of fact, every time I was over there, at least once, my hands would get broken, shattered, or sliced up. Anyway, I only even have feeling in small areas of my fingers, and my range of motion is very limited and extremely jerky.

This was a big problem with the mSR, as I was not able to execute the small, controlled, movements required to be precise with the heli. From the newbie section of this forum, someone told me what dual rate mode was, and that I should try it on the mSR since it is an option. Tried it, and it made a 100% difference. Being able to not worry about my shaky hands, I was able to fly the mSR totally around my home... and after having the bird for over two weeks, I was finally enjoying the damn thing!

So that whole situation was explained to ask all of you about the CB100.

I read the CB100 does not have dual rate. So I wondered how the stick movements compared to the mSR... if it compared more to the mSR in normal mode, or if it compared to the mSR in easy mode? In normal mode, I can not fly the mSR, it is to sensitive to stick commands for my defective hands to use - but in easy mode, the over exaggerated stick commands needed to move the mSR around were just perfect. I do not want to get the CB100 if it is something I am not capable of flying do to this issue, hence my question to all you experienced owners!

Thank you guys in advance for your help!

[timewerx]

Here's the issue...

I have a problem that will limit me in how advanced I will ever be able to get in this sport. I suffered severe trauma to both my hands during my tours in Iraq. Matter of fact, every time I was over there, at least once, my hands would get broken, shattered, or sliced up. Anyway, I only even have feeling in small areas of my fingers, and my range of motion is very limited and extremely jerky.

Hoping you could get it healed or something. I dunno about the CB100.

But how advanced you could get? you can try the much bigger birds, I'm speaking of outdoor types, sorry if that's not what you want but they usually have a larger margin of error than smaller helis as they react to inputs much more 'slowly'. They can be also fitted with a fly-by-wire system or autopilot to help you fly. The disadvantage of bigger ones is they are more vulnerable to crashes and much more expensive to repair. Haven't flown the big birds myself for real, only in simulators and they are far more easier to fly than the small birds.

I recommend you try flying in simulators with your transmitter to evaluate on what type of helis you can fly.

[hiwattheli]

Hello Raptor,

I own both. The mSR is a superb product...more than the toy it appears. I can let it go hands off for 20+ seconds (8' ceiling). But you know this already.

The CB100 is almost the same footprint, with twice the weight. This makes it more "real" feeling, but also harder to bank a turn, make a sudden shift in direction, or fly backwards.

The CB100 is capable of going hands free for six, maybe 7 seconds - still good, but until perfectly trimmed, I'd say 2 seconds. This is still VERY stable, as most other helis demand control in less than 1/4 second. However, the 100 fails to forgive minor crashes and hard landings like the mSR. I've even crashed into a friend's mSR with no damage to either.

The CB100 can crash a couple of times if you shut down the right way (coin toss). But, looking back, I have bought 2 tail booms, one landing skid. one canopy, a wiring set, and a rear stab, 3 blade sets, and two main rotor head/shafts. Maybe some of it was flying it over a parking lot, when, suddenly, the tail boom detached. The thing dropped, upside down, from 12+ feet!

So, all in all, the CB100 is a good next step...stable, with only a small amount more indoor room needed to fly than the mSR...but remember, the buck starts here. Get out your wallet. Also, if you are bad with sub-atomic screws and circlips, get a friend interested in "tinkering' with it.

If you need real help, see the "opinions on the cb100" post. Steve Joblin and Shaggy Birdman, et al, jumped to help me. They are very good people, and will help you, too.

Good luck and best regards,

John

[RaptorStorm]

Thank you John!

My curiosity lies more when you move the stick for the tx on CB100, is it forgiving? Or does it respond and take off instantly like the mSR does?

See, I can handle the mSR when I use the Dual Rate feature and put it in easy mode (pushing the right stick in after turning on the tx). When I use easy mode, the mSR becomes controllable for my hand problems, and is enjoyable to fly around.

I read that the CB100 does not have a Dual Rate feature... so I need to know if it responds as quickly as the mSR does in normal mode, or if all that extra weight has dumbed down the response time so that it takes more stick movement to get it to start doing things (like when the mSR tx is in easy mode).

Does that make sense in what I am trying to discover? Because I'm not certain if I am asking the question properly.


On the mSR's tx in normal mode, the stick on the tx sitting at center is at 0%, pushing it all the way in a single directions will give you 100%. So that small movement goes from 0-100%. The mSR responds very very fast to that movement. My hands and fingers can not do those small movements, nice and smooth. So my problem is that I am not capable of keeping the mSR from zipping uncontrollable across the room because it responds so quickly to the stick movements I make. When I turned on Dual Rate, so I was in easy mode, it changes the tx so when the stick is pushed all the way in one direction, it doesn't do 100%. It doesn't actually indicate what it maxes out at, but let's say it's 50%.

So instead of having to make very small and difficult movements, I can use the entire range of motion and only ever get 50% speed out of it.

If you haven't tired it on your mSR, give it a shot, it might better help what my newbie butt is trying to explain here. The tx that comes with the RTF version, turn it on, after it beeps, push the right stick inward. It will beep, than the red light starts flashing. The red light will stay flashing, indicating it is in easy mode. Now fly the mSR around. The margin for error on the stick controls feels like it is tripled.

Something I read about the CB100, was that it had a better margin of error in stick play due to its larger weight. So I am hoping that someone that owns both can indicate to me a comparison. Comparing the mSR in normal mode, then the mSR in easy mode - to how the CB100 responds to its tx.

I hope this makes sense. I am not sure if I am wording this properly at all....

[hiwattheli]

Now I understand fully. You do not want the CB100, you need a good tx, like the Spektrum DX 6i transmitter. It made smooth take-offs a dream on the mSR. You can set the position, rate, and exponent for each stick, and then bind them together to work with one switch. ps on the CB100 - it will not bind to non-Walkera transmitters, and comes with a crappy 2402 tx.

[Steve Joblin]

The 2402 is crappy, but the 2801Pro is quite good... you can make changes to rates, expo, and such on the 2801 (you just need to changes compatibility mode first, make the changes, then switch the compatibility mode back.

I wouldn't recommend the CB100 for you as in the end, it will very similar to the mSR in "Normal" mode. I would look to some of the cool coaxial helis like the Nine Eagles, SOLO or Free Spirit that offer "Easy" and "Normal" modes.

[RaptorStorm]

Guys, thank you. Steve, I also got your PM, thank you too!

So the CB100 won't be forgiving to jerky/non-precise stick movements; like the mSR is on "easy" mode.

Rats, it looks like a fun thing to play around with servos and rx's and stuff. But if I can't fly it, not much point. heh


What kind of headache would I be undertaking to get something like this;
http://www.advantagehobby.com/product.php?productid=107226&cat=975

That comes with a small rx and some small servos, and swap out the parts inside of a CB100? Or do they make ultra-micro heli kits instead of rtf's?

With everything being on that single board on the mSR, kinda makes it hard to mess with things.


Those co-ax ones, I have one of those, but it does not slide left and right like the mSR does... I think that part is neat. I wouldn't want to loose that feature.

[Steve Joblin]

Converting a Walkera to a Spectrum based system is not that simple. It would take more effort than that as the gyro is part of the Walkera Receiver. Although it is technically feasible, it is usually not worth the cost or aggrivation. Walkera will be releasing the LAMA3 soon which is a Collective Pitched Coaxial that is suposed to be very stable. It would certainly give you more than enough to tinker with!

What Coax do you have? Although a Coax doesn't behave the same as a fixed pitch or collective pitch, it should be able to move in all directions like the mSR. Is it a three channel or a four channel?

[RaptorStorm]

Any suggestions on something small enough to fly indoors that either has enough weight to it to allow a lot of stick movement before it responds, or an easy mode like the mSR... but is also something I can try things with, like new motors, and stuff like that?

I was looking at the Madhawk 300/CB180. Not sure if something like that is to big to fly indoors though, but there a lot of parts and things for it to tinker with.


The main reason I want one to tinker on, it basically is physical therapy for me in an enjoyable fashion. Those small parts are hard for me to work on, but I can take as much time as I need to do it and get it right.

Are there kits to build for heli's this small? Is the Lama3 something I can use indoors? It sounds very neat.


the co-ax I have is a 3ch, Falcon-X is the name of it. very very easy to fly. it was what got me into the hobby, and into buying the mSR.

I can only find like two websites that sell the nine eagles you mentioned, club heli and miracle mart. That scares me a bit, as far as support goes with tinkering and such.

I need to be able to fly it inside though... seems like this is really limiting my options too.

That Lama3 looks very neat, it's talking about photographing... sounds a little to big to fly indoors, at over 20 inches long.

[Steve Joblin]

Yes, the Lama3 would probably be a bit too big for indoor use. Lots of places sell Nine Eagles, so I wouldn't be "put off", but there aren't many after market parts for them (or for Walkera for that matter). I think if you are looking to tinker, you should consider a Blade CX/2. It is a indoor sized coax that is a bit bigger than the the mSR, but there are many companies that make hop-ups and accessories for it.

[RaptorStorm]

would going co-ax be a step backwards from the mSR for learning, trying, and hoping to eventually get better?

The CX2 looks nice. Kinda like the full body canopy, or fuselage I guess it should be called.

[Steve Joblin]

I wouldn't consider it a step back at all. The CX/2 is not a toy and requires skill to fly it in all orientations.

[miamiheli]

I have an MSR and a 4#3b and the 43b has been in it's box for a while now.
If you want something to "tinker" with, that is the one, or the CB100 but that might take a little less tinkering.

As for the CX2/3s I stopped flying mine for a while when I was learning the blade 400.

Every once in a while I consider passing the CX3 on to a friend who has pretty much mastered the MCX.
Then I fly the CX3 to be sure it still works and realize that I still enjoy flying it too much to let it go.:arggg:

The skids on the CX3 are a bit fragile compared to a CX2 but I guess the CX3 has a better gyro (HH.)
You can put cx2 skids and body on a CX3 frame, basically the same thing except for the gyro and maybe the ar6100e.
Not sure if the CX2 uses the 6100e reciever or not?

EDIT- looks like the CX2 has a 4 in 1 (reciever, esc, mixer and gyro.)

I'd go CX3 and some spare landing gear and blades for while you get used to it. And a spare battery or two.
You may want to get a spare inner and outer shaft as well, and maybe the metal swash plate. That actually made a difference, the other alum parts are more for looks. The lights are kind of nice to have though.

There is your tinkering and the parts aren't quite as small as a walkera either.

The radio is pretty nice for a basic unit and you could use it on the MSR as well though you'd probably have to reverse a switch or two on the radio- probably find that info on this site. I saw that info for the MCX somewhere and it would be the same for the MSR.

[zvok]

Just a thought for you to consider:

If you are looking for tinkering and building one of these micro helicopters you can consider buying the parts and assembling it yourself you will find helicopter diagrams showing all the parts on the web.

If you add up all you have to purchase it will be more expensive the buying RTF. You can also buy RTF take it apart and reassemble

I am sure and hopeful that this hobby will improve your capabilities and skills and will give you much enjoyment.

[RaptorStorm]

Thank you, everyone!

Right now I am just practicing with the mSR, I've been trying 'spot landing' (I think it was referred to). I have this basket made for kids toys, I turn it upside down and it's a little bigger than the surface area of the 4 port battery charger that comes with the mSR, by about an inch in all directions. So I try to take off and land back on that.

My thinking was, this type of flying would better help the minor control aspect of things. When I feel confident with that, I'll start the nose in stuff - which I have no idea what that even means yet. lol

[miamiheli]

Thank you, everyone!

Right now I am just practicing with the mSR, I've been trying 'spot landing' (I think it was referred to). I have this basket made for kids toys, I turn it upside down and it's a little bigger than the surface area of the 4 port battery charger that comes with the mSR, by about an inch in all directions. So I try to take off and land back on that.

My thinking was, this type of flying would better help the minor control aspect of things. When I feel confident with that, I'll start the nose in stuff - which I have no idea what that even means yet. lol

Nose in just means the heli is facing you or coming at you as opposed to tail in where it is almost like you are "riding" the heli.

The MSR is a little bit of a challenge to spot land compared to an MCX so that is some good practice.

[shaggybirdman]

get a better radio, and it will give you the extras to help you fly it better. i had one for about a month. sold it due to it flying too easy. replaced it with a cb100. not even looking back. i flew my msr with my dx7. 100x's better than the stock radio. the dx6i is about the same feeling when flying, and $130 cheaper. i don't like the dx6i due to it's lite weight. feels toy like in my hands, but it is feature packed, and well worth the money.

[FlyingFiz]

Hi Raptor Storm,
IMHO I would suggest an EFlite Blade CX2 - it is as easy to fly as the MSR when the MSR is in slow rate mode. It's a great looking heli and can be flown indoors easily and outdoors on a calm day. It's very stable in hover but given its larger size it can move across a room fairly quickly. But it doesn't tend to get away from you like the MSR can.

CX2 parts are cheap and repairs are easy and you can tinker with it. Hard to tinker with the MSR even with the hands of a surgeon. Suggest if you buy the CX2 you get spare blades (lots - their brittle) & spare landing gear.

The CB100 is harder than the MSR when the MSR is in normal mode, so you need constant and small fast corrections.

One last suggestion is the Walkera CB180D. It's bigger than the CB100 but MUCH more stable, almost as stable as a co-axial (like the CX2) but is single rotor and looks great, but would be tricky indoors unless you live in stadium. :cheers

[shaggybirdman]

i don't agree, but then again i'm not a total rookie anymore, but i still think the cb100 is 10x the heli that the msr is. the cb100 just needs a bit of tweaking on the swash rods to correct the trim settings. it takes a ton of abuse just like the msr. it's also less twitchy than the msr. as i said in my previous post i sold my msr to get the cb100. the only other heli's i'd recogmend for a newbe is the walkera 4#6. i'm selling my 4g6 to get one. i also have a cx2. it's a great heli, but there is a learning curve to it. easy to fly in a 10 x 10 space. as stated above it will fly outside in lite wind. i'm debating on selling mine, but it is a fun heli.

[omsta]

RaptorStorm - the dual rates / expo function is part of your transmitter and can be applied to any helicopter, as long as it's compatible with your transmitter.

I have a DX7 and mSR and have it dialed in to fly pretty nicely using dual rates & expo.
I also have the Walkera 2801E transmitter and it's feature-set is as good, if not better, than the DX7 IMO. I use it to fly the 4G3, which is very twitchy, so have added lots of expo and other programming.
I'm debating getting the CB100 or 4G6 - mainly because of the 2801 transmitter I already have.

Anyway, if you invest in a good transmitter up front - you can set it up to your flying style with any compatible heli.

[ohsnap]

get a better radio, and it will give you the extras to help you fly it better. i had one for about a month. sold it due to it flying too easy. replaced it with a cb100. not even looking back. i flew my msr with my dx7. 100x's better than the stock radio. the dx6i is about the same feeling when flying, and $130 cheaper. i don't like the dx6i due to it's lite weight. feels toy like in my hands, but it is feature packed, and well worth the money.

RaptorStorm - the dual rates / expo function is part of your transmitter and can be applied to any helicopter, as long as it's compatible with your transmitter.

I have a DX7 and mSR and have it dialed in to fly pretty nicely using dual rates & expo.
I also have the Walkera 2801E transmitter and it's feature-set is as good, if not better, than the DX7 IMO. I use it to fly the 4G3, which is very twitchy, so have added lots of expo and other programming.
I'm debating getting the CB100 or 4G6 - mainly because of the 2801 transmitter I already have.

Anyway, if you invest in a good transmitter up front - you can set it up to your flying style with any compatible heli.

ditto what they said. i recently started out in this hobby with the msr rtf as well. i hated the stock tx and picked up a dx7 shortly after and can say its alot of fun using dual rates/expo w/ the msr.

im on my second cb100 now which is heavily modded (outrunner, xpa-7 esc, 2.9g tail) using a rx2605a w/2801pro tx. this allows for a ton of programming functions such as servo/gyro/throttle expos which would be exactly what your looking for to tone down the bird.

i think you would be severely dissapointed moving from your fp msr to a coax, especially when you can dial in a cb100 with a programmable rx/tx. the cb100 is definitely the way to go if you like to tinker/mod.

wowhobbies sells hopped up cb100's as well as stock. i think your best bet would be to grab a stock cb100 w/ a 2801pro and get your hands on a 2605a rx if you really want to dial it in.

if you want to play around with a programmable tx such as dx6i or dx7 (not a whole lot you can do with the msr) which you can use later for other dsm2 helis, they go for $100 to $200 online.

[john aeras]

im on my second cb100 now which is heavily modded (outrunner, xpa-7 esc, 2.9g tail) using a rx2605a w/2801pro tx. this allows for a ton of programming functions such as servo/gyro/throttle expos which would be exactly what your looking for to tone down the bird.

wowhobbies sells hopped up cb100's as well as stock. i think your best bet would be to grab a stock cb100 w/ a 2801pro and get your hands on a 2605a rx if you really want to dial it in.

if you want to play around with a programmable tx such as dx6i or dx7 (not a whole lot you can do with the msr) which you can use later for other dsm2 helis, they go for $100 to $200 online.

Interesting!.. I am thinking of picking up a cb100, never thought of upgrading the RX to a 2605a, that's a great idea, I just might do that to my heavily modded 4#3b! (see: http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=1833133&postcount=9)
I wonder if anyone has tried that!
Which outrunner main are you running on the cb100?
By the way thanks for the tips!:thumbup:

P.S. Which dsm2 helis are you reffering to for $100-$200?

[ohsnap]

hi john, i grabbed the hp06-2 outrunner w/ 16t pinion from wow. i believe its similar to the hp05s motor terrance at chinese jade carries. his is about $14 cheaper as well :thumbup:

the motor is a beast of an upgrade compared to stock!

regarding the dsm2 stuff; i was actually referring to upgrading the radios. when i was in the market for a dx6i, i stumbled across new dx7's for $179 over at big sky hobbies. thought that was a pretty killer deal :)

nice 4#3b btw! i just ordered some of the flybar paddles to try out on my cb

[john aeras]

Appreciate the reply!!:thumbup:

[zvok]

Interesting!.. I am thinking of picking up a cb100, never thought of upgrading the RX to a 2605a, that's a great idea, I just might do that to my heavily modded 4#3b! (see: http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=1833133&postcount=9)
I wonder if anyone has tried that!
Which outrunner main are you running on the cb100?
By the way thanks for the tips!:thumbup:

P.S. Which dsm2 helis are you reffering to for $100-$200?

Just curious, if you have a 4#3 why would you get a CB-100??:dontknow:dontknow