Spartan AP2000i or Robbe Heli Command?

[sparky]

Thank you too mlaboyteaux!

[MarkWebber]

Trex 600, eh? Sweet heli. I got to see one flying about 3 weeks ago. Amazing how smooth those electrics are. Will make a fine platform for the AP2000i :wink: And, as you can see, there's plenty of help on here if you find yourself uncertian about the install.

[sparky]

Thanks alot mark, and it would be a safe bet to place that when it arrives, I will have some questions onthe install! But, I do love a challange! :twisted: I think all on this site do, or we would not be flying RC!!!!!!!! :wink:

[xircom]

I have seen many Q&A now about this AP2000i, but also on others like Stabilizer (General Laser), now for me it looks AP2000i is the better system, especially future proof when the inertial sensor will be out (although probably this is going to be a lot more expensive, maybe twice the box). But I have a question about using this box for *** 3D flight training (safety net, with some limits of course) ***, which of those would better suit. The issue is, that stabilizer (3D version) can handle inverted flight (although I would not mind if heli "swapped" in dangerous situations, but stay is of course better), whereas AP2000i cannot (?) - from feature point of view, the AP2000i does not need extensive calibration in the air, and also its SW seems to be better. Which would you buy in this situation (can wait maybe January of course). Thanks so much :idea:

[Angelos]

The current AP-2000i software will always bring the helicopter upright if you turn on the stabiliser for a quick bailout. There is a method to configure the AP-2000i for inverted hover but I want to test it myself before I make it publicly known.

-Angelos

[GGoodrum]

The CoPilot had another sensor for detectig inverted flight, I think.

[Angelos]

Gary,
You are right; the co-pilot Z sensor is to detect when you are inverted but it is only useful for airplanes. Airplanes can bailout faster and lose less altitude with a half roll than a half loop. The Z sensor is used so that the stabiliser knows the airplane is inverted and apply roll correction only until it comes upright… then apply pitch correction too to keep if flying level.

With helicopters it makes no difference if you roll or flip or any combination of the too. The stabiliser applies corrections on both axis and the helicopter will follow the shortest and therefore fastest path upright. This can be done without the Z sensor.

-Angelos

[xircom]

uh, so that means when I over inverted and low releasing the sticks, the AP2000 would hit me into ground, because it want to get the heli upright ?

[Angelos]

The AP-2000i will not let you fly inverted when upright stabilisation is enabled. However, if you are inverted with stabilisation off and then you turn stabilisation on the AP-2000i will flip the helicopter upright.

Similarly, if you set the AP-2000i for inverted stabilisation it will flip the helicopter inverted as soon as you turn stabilisation on.

How is your preference. How do you want it to work?

[xircom]

obviously in most cases, first is preferred, because going inverted automatically from horizontal sounds a bit scary - but of course for inverted training second. Wishful would be of course in case of 0-90deg normal and 90-180 inverted automatically - is that only possible with z-sensor. If not it would be nice also to set it remotely ?

Also I'd wish to know the advantages from AP2000i, compared to other products, one of them is the upcoming inertial sensors (which I have understood are quite around the corner), the other one is very good support, then I think it does not need really calibration flight. Is that right, and are there other ones ? Of course for this purpose being "safety net", not for AP as such.

Thanks a lot !

[MarkWebber]

xircom

Calibration in flight is not necessary but it is really easy and if I were using the AP2000 as a safety net :WOW , I would like to know that I was going to come out in the best hover possible. Just to have that extra little bit of breathing room while calming down following my mistake.

[xircom]

I see, well I don't mind doing calibration very now and then - no problem, just if it's not really needed, it is superior to others right now. So what you are saying, is that it's not needed, but it's better to do so, because it ensures the better result, than without ?

[xircom]

do you think here it will work ? :roll:

[Angelos]

Wishful would be of course in case of 0-90deg normal and 90-180 inverted automatically - is that only possible with z-sensor. If not it would be nice also to set it remotely ?

The issue here is that the stabiliser does not control collective pitch. Thus the pilot will need to either put positive or negative pitch as needed. If you let the stabiliser decide between normal or inverted hover you will have to be ready to match what the stabiliser decides to do... and it will do it very fast. In some cases it may be obvious which way it will go but if the helicopter is nearly 90 deg rolled it may not be easy.

I will be adding more options in the firmware for inverted stabilisation and the user will be able to choose how inverted stabilisation is enabled. Using the Z sensor will be an option. Another one is to use the collective... thus if you turn the stabiliser on with positive collective it goes to normal stabilisation; if you turn it on while the collective is negative it goes to inverted stabilisation. This way the stabiliser matches what the pilot does (as opposed to the other way round).

-Angelos

[Angelos]

do you think here it will work ?

The stabiliser does not look directly at the horizon. The sensor have an ~90deg conical view. If both sides have similar surroundings it will work fine because it will still be able to see some sky and have a balanced view. If you have large abstractions on one side in close proximity and nothing on the other side it will give you a slow drift away from the obstruction. This photo is taken on a hot summer day and the metal fence is really hot from the sun. The stabiliser is pushing the helicopter away from the fence put it is still perfectly flyable. Once you move 15-20 meters away from the fence it is not noticeable any more.

http://www.spartan-rc.com/pub/rr_posts/camcop.jpg

[xircom]

Hello Angelos,

Excellent answers, as usual. :noteworthy

I think it's ok to control the pitch yourself. Also I think it can be a good option to do 0-90deg goes horizontal and 90-180deg goes inverted, if it's about 90 deg, it does not matter to me. About using this collective, this is very good idea as well, but isn't there situations where collective is negative, while you are (and want to be) upright ..?

It's ok to be slightly pushed away from the (hot) fence or houses, no problem, just I was wondering about the horizon cannot be seen (railway bridge / buildings)

Thanks a lot, that helped a lot - and convinced, will order one (as soon as the USB cable is available again !)

[Tonystott]

SNIP
About using this collective, this is very good idea as well, but isn't there situations where collective is negative, while you are (and want to be) upright ..?
SNIP

I think Angelos was talking about the moment you turn the stabiliser on. I guess if you were in an auto at the time that could get very interesting :D

But you would be aware of the collective position when turning on the stabiliser wouldn't you?

[xircom]

that's right, if you know it, you maybe be prepared - or not, depending how nervous you are :WOW

[xircom]

Angelos,

What is this Spartan RC HL360 horizon sensor with digital sensor interface described shortly in the latest AP2000i manual ?

Also according to the manual, the AP2000i has a "power for the sensor" interface, is that the IP sensor, or the power for the AP2000i box ?

Will you implement the "inverted hover ability" soon ?

Thanks a lot,

[xircom]

ordered one yesterday :twisted: could not wait

[xircom]

so I configured everything but the gain. Now I have JR 77S RX (TX 9303), means I have only one channel free, which is gear. So I want to use AUX3 slider (right side) for caibration/strength and gear switch for emergency. So I did a

PROG Mix1: AUX3->Gear so, that 0%->100%, 100%->0% linear
Gear switch reversed, and Gear ATV +100% -50%

Looking on monitor and Ap2000i, I can see

- Gear up and slider middle (start position, AP not used) --> 0% (AP shows "OFF")
- Gear up, Slider downwards (calibration only) --> 0% to -x% (AP shows CAL, and then done)
- Gear up, Slider upwards (normal stabilization) --> 0% to 50% (AP shows 0% to 50%)
- Slider middle (start position), hit Gear down (emergency) -> 75% (AP shows 75%)

Now if 75% gain for the emergency is too much, then the -50% ATV can be reduced to for example -30%, then hitting the gear switch, the AP shows 60%, and gear low ATV can be furthermore taken down to 0%, which means hitting the gear switch, AP goes to 50%. All this of course with slider middle (50%), because I would fly "off" before hit the switch.

Do you think above will work, and is 50 - 75% for the emergency is too much ??

Thanks a lot, hope this is final setting ...

[MarkWebber]

I don't think 75% is too much for emergency at all. I don't fly with that much gain but there are others on here that do. At higher gain settings the AP2000i will quickly return to the calibrated position. Of course, that is what you want it to do in an emergency. :D

[xircom]

definitely that's the plan :wink: thanks

[DebianDog]

Did anyone ever try Robbie?

[Ruud Westerhout]

Hi DebianDog,

as I was very interested I looked through this thread some time ago. A pity for me that I did not find my confirmation, what good a toy this Robbie is. I could not find a Spartan in the short trip I am planning for Europe, so I ordered the Robbie. I will get it tomorrow, be back in Russia for the weekend. So, the good part is, there is somebody who can test it. But the bad part is, I cannot fly yet, so I am really a hell of a help :)
If there are any specific question which You think even a newbie with the 3A can help, just shoot.

regards,
Ruud
(of the shelf T-Rex 450se, JR 9Xii)