Spartan AP2000i or Robbe Heli Command?

[abeloncho]

Hi there. I´m a newbie in aerial photography and i don´t know which stabilizer is better for what i need.

Spartan is based on infrared and Heli Command on 3 gyros when height is more than 30 feet, is that correct?

Which one is more stable for photography?

Thanks

[MLaBoyteaux]

I'm using an AP-2000i on both of my gassers. For AP work, it really helps to maintain a stable hover at higher altitudes. Angelos has done a great job with the product and provides great tech support. In fact, I think he's about to release a new software update that adds a couple of new features.

If you intend to do AP work by yourself, an AP-2000 will really help out.

I don't have any experience with the Robbe unit, so I can't comment on it either way.

[LoopBaCK]

I second what Mark said. I have an AP20001 on my electric and will soon have one on my gasser (unless I trade it for an eRaptor - either way will be adding AP2000i). Holding the heli steady at any height above 50 feet has always been a challenge for me but slap the stabilizer on and it's a whole new ballgame. Definitely worth the money...

[furyphoto]

I am wondering how the stabilizers perform in mountainous areas. Since the infrared sense the difference between the ground and the sky do they get confused? Or am I misunderstanding how they work? I live in the mountains, and am a newbie, so I will NEED a stabiliser to shoot with. Does anyone know how they will perform in the mountains?(I'm putting my hours in on the sim too!)

-A

[MarkWebber]

Andrew

I haven't flown mine in the mountains but I have been quite close to trees and buildings. In gain settings around 35-50%, my heli will tend to drift away from the IR heat signature. If you're not right next to the mountains, I can't imagine them being much of an influence on the AP2000i's performance.

[furyphoto]

Thanks Mark, the AP2000i is what I had in mind anyway.

-A

[Nate Dogg]

Mark, how close is quite close?

[MarkWebber]

Nate

In my front yard it is hard to be more than 15' from a tree, car or house. At lower gain settings it will cause my heli to do large slow circles. At construction sites shoots I've found that I generally take off and land within 50' of the structure. I've guess I've gotten used to the tendency to move away because I don't really notice when it does it anymore. At higher gains(70%+) it would be more obvious, of course.

[Angelos]

As Mark said a new firmware release will be available for download soon. This is in fact complete and I am just finishing off testing; then update the user guide. This release adds:

* Glitch counter, frame error counter and failsafe for use with PPM receivers.
* The battery monitor now displays both current voltage as well as the lowest voltage seen in flight while the battery was under normal operating load.
* Optional one step IR sensor calibration.
* Smooth gain ramping up/down with adjustable time. This eliminates the violent/rapid jump to the hover position when the stabiliser is activated using a switch but smoothens slider control too.
* Support for the upcoming digital sensors.
* Max altitude display (requires altitude sensor). Altitude hold to follow in future f/w release.


Regarding mountainous terrain. All IR systems have the tendency to drift away from the hotter side and thus it will have a slight drift away from the mountains. If you are flying around the drift is not really disturbing. But if you want to keep the helicopter in a hover you may need a few clicks on the trims to compensate depending on the helicopter heading. However, with the new firmware trimming is a thing of the past… Simply… with the stabiliser off you put the helicopter in a perfect hover, hit the calibrate switch on the transmitter and you are done! Now when you turn the stabiliser gain up the heli will continue to be perfectly trimmed.

Angelos (Spartan RC)

[dreslism]

Regarding mountainous terrain. All IR systems have the tendency to drift away from the hotter side and thus it will have a slight drift away from the mountains. If you are flying around the drift is not really disturbing. But if you want to keep the helicopter in a hover you may need a few clicks on the trims to compensate depending on the helicopter heading. However, with the new firmware trimming is a thing of the past… Simply… with the stabiliser off you put the helicopter in a perfect hover, hit the calibrate switch on the transmitter and you are done! Now when you turn the stabiliser gain up the heli will continue to be perfectly trimmed.

Angelos (Spartan RC)

Sweeeeet. Nice job Angelos. anxiously awaiting this down load for the above feature.

Isn't it nice to be able to talk about your product here? :wink:

[MLaBoyteaux]

As soon as my wallet recovers from the electric conversion of my Raptor, it's getting an AP-2000.

I'm wondering, if I put an IR sensor on the roll axis of one of my mounts......and used an AP-2000, would it level the camera platform in roll and keep it level with the horizon? If all I wanted to do was use it for stabilizing the roll axis with the horizon?

Might make an interesting experiment.....I'm sure Angelos has already thought about it, maybe he knows whether it'll work or not.

[Tonystott]

Guys,
I am confused! Are there two similar products out there?
http://www.rcmarket.org/product.php?productid=14431&cat=141&page=1
http://www.spartan-rc.com/products/ap2000i/ap2000i.htm

What makes it even more confusing is the similarity of the downloaded manuals:-
http://www.rcmarket.org/ProductManuals/STABILIZER.pdf
http://www.spartan-rc.com/products/ap2000i/AP-2000i_user_guide.pdf

Pricing is different as well. Can anybody please clarify? (I am sold on the Spartan, but have a friend who found the other one)

[dreslism]

Actually there are quite a few products that are all different.

1) copilot by fma has been around a long time.
2) robbe heli command is pretty much brand new this summer/ just released.
3) General Laser product ( that is the rcmarket.org link)
4) AP2000i which is the spartan-rc.com link.

I would not put a copilot on a heli. I have used them without problem on airplanes, but glitched like crazy on a high voltage heli.


Robbe Heli command is suppose to have internal "intertia/gyro" type sensor. This item is brand new and has much talk about it over on RR.

I believe the general laser comes with an ir sensor. I have never heard much talk about this, although there are some people that talk about ir on RR, not sure if I have seen reference to it here.

Ap2000i is the brain unit. It requires some external sensor. Most use copilot IR sensor. Angelos is supposedly still working on their own internal sensor which will not use IR, but is not released yet.

The ap2000i has lots of satisfied happy customers you can read about on RR, and I could probably name 10 people in this forum using them. Myself included.

Nothing but good things from me to say about the ap2000i.

Do your homework and make sure you know what you're getting before you buy. The cheapest is not always the best, although I'm sure you know it. Think about what you're putting it on, and make sure you have good references on the item you want before you buy it.

[MarkWebber]

Tony

While the concept is similar the systems are not. The AP2000i is a more capable system. While I'm not certian, that other one looks like the old general lazer system. Before I went with Spartan's system, I had a few people guide me away from that particular model. I think reliability was their prime concern, if I remember correctly.

[GJestico]

Another vote for the ap2000i. It has enabled me to do things I never dreamed of with my heli. 800 foot hover.
I am so spoiled by it if it was taken away id put training gear on.

Greg

[MarkWebber]

800 foot hover


Geez...using binoculars?? :wink:

[GJestico]

I squint :glasses2:

[MarkWebber]

LOL...nice. I'll have to give that a go!

[Tonystott]

Thanks guys! So at this stage, the gung-ho system is the Spartan in combination with the FMA sensor, the latter which will presumably be replaced by Spartan's own sensor...

One more question.. does Spartan's "digital cyclic ring" work when the Tx has cyclic split onto two sticks? I think so, as from the manual it seems to rely on electronic inputs for elev and ail, irrespective of the Tx configuration. If so, this is a bonus :)

Last question, what is the all-up weight of an AP2000i, FMA IR sensor and connections? I am hoping I can squeeze this onto a Trex (as a starter AP ship - miving on up subsequently)

Thanks!

[GJestico]

Just weighed it. 1.5 oz for the fma sensor and the ap2000 unit together. no wiring or mounting brkt(s)

[MarkWebber]

One more question.. does Spartan's "digital cyclic ring" work when the Tx has cyclic split onto two sticks? I think so, as from the manual it seems to rely on electronic inputs for elev and ail, irrespective of the Tx configuration. If so, this is a bonus

I'm inclined to agree but I've only used it on my single stick cyclic. I do like the feature alot, though.
BTW...Why would you be running 2 stick cyclic?

[GJestico]

mode 1 weirdo :smokin:

[MarkWebber]

mode 1 weirdo

Glad you said it :wink:

[Tonystott]

B*stards :) Actually, down under (and in parts of Europe), Mode 1 is "normal" especially for people who started in planks. Without in any way possibly (:D) starting a religious debate on the subject, I gather that the benefits on one are not great enough to justify the pain of switching to the other. If I was starting over though, I would have gone Mode 2.

But my helis fly inspite of this handicap :)

[Angelos]

One more question.. does Spartan's "digital cyclic ring" work when the Tx has cyclic split onto two sticks? I think so, as from the manual it seems to rely on electronic inputs for elev and ail, irrespective of the Tx configuration. If so, this is a bonus


Yes it works with split cyclic. The AP-2000i does not know and does not care where the aileron and elevator inputs come from. Its task is to keep the swashplate deflection within a circle to ensure it does not bind. More importantly the digital cyclic ring operates after the flight stabiliser and thus also eliminates binding caused by large corrections generated from the stabiliser. Such large corrections are not uncommon if you use the system for an emergency bailout. There is also a section on the AP-2000i user guide about this.

-Angelos