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Ice93
01-20-2010, 08:37 PM
Just bit the bullet and got myself a 600 3G Kit yesterday for my T-Rex 600. (My 1st FBL kit, so a bit of a noob here)

I noticed that during setup (DIR) all subtrims and endpoints need to be at 0 and 100/100 respectively.

In my previous flybar setup up, I have been using a swash leveler to get my swash level before adjusting anything. Question is, do I still need to use a swash leveler on the FBL?

From what I can see, my swash is not fully level at midstick and it gets even worse on high and low stick.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated and thank in advance!!

Bob O
01-20-2010, 08:40 PM
That's a good question. I'm looking forward to hearing an answer. :)

Slyster
01-20-2010, 09:16 PM
since the FBL unit is correcting on the fly (pardon the pun) I am thinking swash leveling is pretty much a thing of the past??? I did it anyway since the Mikado allows it.

steph280
01-20-2010, 09:51 PM
yeah I think it's no longer needed as well.

The FBL system will correct the heli based on which way the heli is moving. It doesn't care where the swash is. It will tilt the swash until it senses the heli stopped drifting. That's the beauty of it.

Slyster
01-20-2010, 10:02 PM
Plus with autotuning (again Mikado does that not sure what others do) basically tunes out mechanical imperfections.. and also the optimizers etc.. I assume they all do this sort of thing.

Ice93
01-20-2010, 11:34 PM
Thanks for all the quick reply guys!!! Wow thats good to hear...really make setting up easier then!!

I'm starting to love flybarless!!!

Big Fil
01-21-2010, 01:40 AM
Good mechanical setup is still beneficial to any FBL system. The less the system has to do compensate for mechanical deficiencies the better.

OICU812
01-21-2010, 03:27 AM
Good mechanical setup is still beneficial to any FBL system. The less the system has to do compensate for mechanical deficiencies the better.


+1, IF there is a setup mode in Aligns FBL where it forces servos to 90, you should then utilize a swash leveller and get the swash dead level indeed.

Edvard R
01-21-2010, 03:39 AM
+1, IF there is a setup mode in Aligns FBL where it forces servos to 90, you should then utilize a swash leveller and get the swash dead level indeed.

This is indeed the case. In the first phase of the setup, everything is adjusted to 0 pitch and everything level. A swash leveler is as useful for FBL as it is for a fly bar heli.

Ice93
01-21-2010, 04:53 AM
This is indeed the case. In the first phase of the setup, everything is adjusted to 0 pitch and everything level. A swash leveler is as useful for FBL as it is for a fly bar heli.

If that is the case do I:

1. Go into 1st phase setup (dir) level the swash at mid stick, high & low stick
2. Go thru the rest of the setup procedures

OR

1. Switch on the heli, let everything initialize, level the swash at low, mid and high stick
2. Turn the heli OFF
3. Turn the heli ON, go into setup and carry on with the rest of the procedures

erwinseow
01-21-2010, 06:32 AM
Hello my friend!

Swash levelling has to be done in setup mode.

rickn816
01-21-2010, 09:30 AM
Question is, do I still need to use a swash leveler on the FBL?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated and thank in advance!!

Yes. Absolutely. You want the same "square" setup that you would use for a mechanical system.

Rick

Ice93
01-21-2010, 08:30 PM
Here's what I've tried so far:-

1. Went into setup mode(DIR)
2. Leveled the swash for low/mid/high stick
3. Completed the rest of the setup procedures

I found that after I completed the setup and rebooted the fbl system, the swash is no longer level. It's as if, all my endpoints setting just disappeared.

Hence, I tried the following:

1. Powered up the heli
2. Leveled the swash in low/mid/high
3. Go into setup mode and completed all setup procedures

This time, after rebooting the FBL system, the swash stayed level in low/mid/high stick. Hope this would work. I haven't flown the 3G yet, gonna maiden her tomorrow so I hope I've gotten everything right.

HiroboFreak
01-21-2010, 10:27 PM
It specifically states in the manual to NOT adjust individual servo endpoints.
Steps 4 & 5, Pages 9 & 10.

The way I read it is to level swash at 0* , leave cyclic endpoints at default (100/100), carry out FBL setup procedure. Go fly.

If your servo geometry is close to correct, the FBL gyros will have minimal work to do.
This is how I will be doing mine anyway.

dveloza
01-21-2010, 11:21 PM
Hi Guys,
If I put the subtrims at 0 the servo arms wont be at 90%. No matter how many times I tried to adjust the arms mechanically (Align arms) the wont be 90% therefore the swashplate wont be straight. What should I do?

steph280
01-21-2010, 11:38 PM
adjust the subtrim on your transmitter until all servos horns are perfectly horizontal. Then go through the flybarless setup process.

thayghetucsb
01-22-2010, 02:22 AM
adjust the subtrim on your transmitter until all servos horns are perfectly horizontal. Then go through the flybarless setup process.

should i use subtrim to level swash at midstick as i usually do with the flybar set up? also should i just ignore the part of leveling swashplate at low and high throttle. I guess the latter is only applicable to fly bar set up.

steph280
01-22-2010, 11:08 AM
Yes you move your pitch to midstick 0 pitch, adjust subtrim to level out the swash. Don't worry about swash interactions on top and bottom as 3G system will compensate in flight.

JesusFreak
01-22-2010, 01:05 PM
I try to get my swash dead center, but find I'm often off a bit one way or the other. I've just adjusted my Pitch curves accordingly. Also, I find I need a bit more negative pitch then positive, in general. Will adjusting the pitch range this way effect how these FBL units setup?

FWIW, I've never used end point adjustments to adjust my pitch, I thought this was a no-no for some reason. I always set the maximum throughs with the swash mix settings and then adjust my pitch curves to further fine tune. Is this a good approach?

steph280
01-22-2010, 01:52 PM
I think you are fine. As long as you are at 0 degrees pitch when you press that SET button to exit the DIR mode, it will remember the servo positions as the neutral point.

Yup you are doing it the "proper" way. End points should be done with swash mix settings, not ATV.

thayghetucsb
01-28-2010, 05:57 AM
Here's what I've tried so far:-

1. Went into setup mode(DIR)
2. Leveled the swash for low/mid/high stick
3. Completed the rest of the setup procedures

I found that after I completed the setup and rebooted the fbl system, the swash is no longer level. It's as if, all my endpoints setting just disappeared.

Hence, I tried the following:

1. Powered up the heli
2. Leveled the swash in low/mid/high
3. Go into setup mode and completed all setup procedures

This time, after rebooting the FBL system, the swash stayed level in low/mid/high stick. Hope this would work. I haven't flown the 3G yet, gonna maiden her tomorrow so I hope I've gotten everything right.
i read the Q&A tip sheet from RCHR, Align says that to use subtrim to get swash level at 50/50 only in DIR mode. However, when i power up the heli after setup is finished, swash is no longer level at midstick but i don't think i'm supposed to try leveling swash again when not in DIR mode. Is this true?

Ice93
01-28-2010, 06:07 AM
Yeah...don't worry about it. As long as it is level at mid stick at (DIR) then it's okay. The system will automatically compensate itself. Just make sure that you check you elevator, aileron and rudder direction before takeoff...

steph280
01-28-2010, 10:48 AM
i read the Q&A tip sheet from RCHR, Align says that to use subtrim to get swash level at 50/50 only in DIR mode. However, when i power up the heli after setup is finished, swash is no longer level at midstick but i don't think i'm supposed to try leveling swash again when not in DIR mode. Is this true?

Right. If you use your subtrim again to level your swash after setup is completed, you need to go back into the DIR mode and have the system recognize your new center.

MrMel
01-28-2010, 12:12 PM
The system will automatically compensate itself.Good mechanical setup is needed, regardless of what FBL solution you setup, High/Low swash level at particular, no FBL solution can correct small interactions.
It will cause or contribute to wobble at tictocs as well and other rapid pitch changes, as well as drifting at punchouts.

Dont fool yourself that just because you run a gyro on the cyclic you can do whatever you want.

thayghetucsb
01-28-2010, 12:57 PM
Right. If you use your subtrim again to level your swash after setup is completed, you need to go back into the DIR mode and have the system recognize your new center.
i did this too. i relevel after set up complete. when going to back to DIR mode, swash is not level at midstick anymore.:arggg: