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View Full Version : Can I use a spartan quark instead of the included gyro with the 3g?


ForceFedDSM
01-22-2010, 09:43 PM
I was wondering if I could use a spartan quark with the align flybarless system instead of the included gyro? It looks like align uses a proprietary plug on the gyro to main unit:confused:

Jared

DominicD
01-22-2010, 09:45 PM
I am no expert on the align 3G but i would assume you just dont send the rudder signal from the rx to the 3G but treat it like you normally would.

hurricane.br
01-22-2010, 09:46 PM
That would defeat the point of it beeing a 3 axis unit, but you can always plug the spartan directly to the receiver and just plug the cyclic servos to and signals to the 3g.

T6driver
01-22-2010, 09:53 PM
The "gyro" unit is the sensor for pitch, roll, and yaw, not just yaw, hence the special connector to the control unit.

ForceFedDSM
01-22-2010, 09:57 PM
I'll just leave it alone and put the quark in one of my other helis, thanks.

steph280
01-22-2010, 11:02 PM
The control box actually uses standard servo connectors in and out. Only the connector to gyro sensor is proprietary.

So in theory you can just plug your spartan directly into your receiver, and leave the 3G's rudder conenctors lose. In fact I think Alan Szabo Jr mentioned this somewhere.

OnTheSnap
01-22-2010, 11:43 PM
Based on my experience so far, I would venture to say the software makes no effort to integrate the tail gyro with the cyclic. In other words there is no torque precompensation or piro optimization. The main advantage is you only have a single system on the heli.

My fingers are crossed for Align to evolve the system and inegrate the tail control with the cyclic routines.

So if you think the Quark is a better gyro then an Align 780 then there would be some advantages to installing it on your helicopter.

BobbySmith
01-23-2010, 08:23 AM
I was wondering if I could use a spartan quark with the align flybarless system instead of the included gyro? It looks like align uses a proprietary plug on the gyro to main unit:confused:

Jared

Yes you can . All though the stock tail gyro works prettygood.

The way the 3G is built the tail is on a seperate bec so you dont have to use it.

turkana
01-23-2010, 08:05 PM
Yes you can. Alan Szabo himself said its no problem to use your own prefered Gyro. Wich makes it even more intresting!

OnTheSnap
01-23-2010, 08:17 PM
Well, I see this option as a negative. Align really needs to take advantage of the fact that they have 3 gyros in 1 box. The tail is truly independent in the system, right now.

James Kovach
01-24-2010, 12:02 AM
It is only a negative if you feel you NEED piro compensation. Being that a Flybar helis tail and cyclic are not tied together, I do not see that as a NEED. Is it nice. Sure, just means you do not have to fly your tail.

OnTheSnap
01-24-2010, 02:51 AM
Very true James. My wife says i don't _need_ heli's either. It's hard to know where to draw the line!

MrMel
01-24-2010, 06:37 AM
It is only a negative if you feel you NEED piro compensation. Being that a Flybar helis tail and cyclic are not tied together, I do not see that as a NEED. Is it nice. Sure, just means you do not have to fly your tail.

You dont get it, with Flybar you dont need piro compensation since the Flybar will keep the heli in line, i.e. Flybar is the same as FBL with piro compensation.

So without it, it will fly WORSE then a Flybar setup, Just fly FFF and start to Piro with the Align 3G, it will go into Wall of death by it self.

Raydee
01-24-2010, 09:16 AM
Just fly FFF and start to Piro with the Align 3G, it will go into Wall of death by it self.

Just want to make sure I am reading this right? You are saying with the 3G system you can't do FFF and piro or it will go crazy?

MrMel
01-24-2010, 09:24 AM
Nope, that's why its important to get that piro optimization.

With paddles you get a gyroscopic effect, just as if you swing a bucket of water, if you swing at an angle, and you start spinning, the bucket want to keep the same angle.

Without the paddles, the electronic has to support that instead.

Here is a good video from AC3X team that shows the difference.
http://www.rcmovie.de/video/0c80c08bdf440226b462/AC3X-pirouette-compensation

JesusFreak
01-24-2010, 09:55 AM
Nope, that's why its important to get that piro optimization.

With paddles you get a gyroscopic effect, just as if you swing a bucket of water, if you swing at an angle, and you start spinning, the bucket want to keep the same angle.

Without the paddles, the electronic has to support that instead.

Here is a good video from AC3X team that shows the difference.
http://www.rcmovie.de/video/0c80c08bdf440226b462/AC3X-pirouette-compensation

MrMel:

I respect your technical expertise greatly. I'm not a full "3D" flyer, mostly sport flying. One think I do like to do is spin my heli around in fast forward flight. Have you flown the Align system to observe this behavior you describe.

Would any of you with this system be willing to give these types of maneuvers a shot on video so we can see how the Align system actually responds?

Thanks for the input. This is all very interesting.

Funky242
01-24-2010, 10:28 AM
Honestly, FL760 + Spartan + Rx = more expensive than a V-Stabi, which is still the reference...V-Stabi performs better (or at least as well) as a Spartan, so why going for a super complicated setup of FBL system + tailgyro, if you can have it all in one unit and do everything in one setup procedure...

nexgen
01-24-2010, 09:33 PM
I think this is what were talking about here. here is a vid of my 2 axis fbl and a separate tail gyro. e.g. no piro comp or tail integration. I just banged the stick over and did not do anything with the cyclic, this is what happened. since then, I have learned how to piro with this unit and keep it upright. now this is on a SMALL heli (gaui 200) and the fbl unit is not as good as aligns, but this can be an extreme example of proof of concept of why tail integration is a good thing on fbl units. If im not mistaken I hear that some SK360 guys also complain about nuances in piro moves on their units as well.

Cgu2ZvnnUEY

JustPlaneChris
01-24-2010, 10:18 PM
Nope, that's why its important to get that piro optimization.I can be in full FFF and piro my Protos (Skookum SK360) and it doesn't go into a "wall of death" or anything else radical and crazy. It just piros, and it keeps on moving just as well as (or better than) when it had a flybar.

MrMel
01-25-2010, 02:43 AM
I can be in full FFF and piro my Protos (Skookum SK360) and it doesn't go into a "wall of death" or anything else radical and crazy. It just piros, and it keeps on moving just as well as (or better than) when it had a flybar.

Let me guess, you level the heli just before you piro, i.e. its not at an angle?

Flexis
01-25-2010, 07:13 AM
Without tail to cyclic correction your FBL system has to constantly correct the swash when your are doing FFF in order to keep it pointing the same way. The system is basically steering a car on a bendy circuit looking out of the back window...only knowing it needs to correct when its starting to go off center.
Now with piro compensation the gyro knows what's coming up and can correct instantly and effortlessly just going with the flow. It only needs to correct some bumps along the way.

A flybar basically does the same due to the gyroscopic effect, it naturally maintains the same angle of attack even if the helicopter is spinning.

On big difference is in the tail of V-stabi you also get pitch and cyclic to tail correction.
Which allows your tail to have a little peak through the front window as well.

So basically proper flybarless without piro optimizing is very hard to do as the gyro's need to do 3 times as much work. The only advantage is in the none piro stuff and offcoarse power and efficienty.

I wonder why no one has built in better torque comp in our transmitters.
Coming to think about it, we all have torque comp for rate gyro's in them.
So what it you could program your transmitter to give just a tiny nudge of rudder everytime you pump the collective. And then take it away instantly, should work :)

JustPlaneChris
01-25-2010, 08:24 AM
Let me guess, you level the heli just before you piro, i.e. its not at an angle?Usually yes, I'm in straight FFF, but not always. Like I said, I can't tell that the FFF piro behavior is any different now than it was with a flybar.

What I take exception with is this quote:You dont get it, with Flybar you dont need piro compensation since the Flybar will keep the heli in line, i.e. Flybar is the same as FBL with piro compensation.

So without it, it will fly WORSE then a Flybar setup, Just fly FFF and start to Piro with the Align 3G, it will go into Wall of death by it self.In my experience (and others I know who fly 2-axis FBL units) that simply doesn't happen. Perhaps it has happened to you? I don't know, but I wanted to provide a counterpoint from the other side of the story.

MrMel
01-25-2010, 08:28 AM
Well, probably "always an exception to any rule" :)

I tried it with SK360, GB and by turning Piro opt off on the VBar, and it made a quite alot difference on my machines.

But I would venture a guess it depends on the setup, blades, servos, throw, agility, all affects in terms of how much you see, and how fast you fly, wind etc.

JustPlaneChris
01-25-2010, 09:11 AM
Point taken, and as they say over here "Your mileage may vary" :lol: