CC HV85 on an Ion, Updated!

[OICU812]

I really wanted a PowerJazz but it seems it may not come out till well after New Year now,,, thus I decided I may as well try a CC esc. I myself in the past never really liked the CC escs for various reasons so this was a hard thing for me to even want to do, :lol: You will see from the pics I made a thing CF plate to run across the bottom cf stock plate to offer support for the esc itself. My Hacker ESC and programming box are in the Electronics classifieds for anyone who is interested.


The Heli Setup is:

Ion
NEU 1521-1.5Y
20:1 Gearing ration with current HS of 1970 RPM
690 V Blades, with 95mm on tail
(2) 5S1P FP Evo 3700 packs


Anyhow ,,, babbling on.... I set the esc to following settings:

Newest firmware etc...
Governor High
Throttle resonse Low
Governor Gain Medium
Timing *Standard Advance*
Motor Start Power (2) in custom mode (as low as you can get is best)
Spool up Speed *Medium*
No Brake "obviuosly"
And anything else I may have missed was default value

I did my normal type of flight and I have to say it was very surprising indeed, the governor workd very well and I could not hear it drop off at all even with the worst stick bangin I could do, and the tail held well. The esc itself and lipos were cool to touch and less than 90 degrees, the motor was 125 which was abit warmer than I like however well within range, I can still look at running the timing in low advance as well to make that run cooler,,,,,, I think.

Anyhow weather permitting which has not been well lately I will get my micro logger on board and get you guys some good data. I can tell you at this point I am pretty happy with it. I still do however have to figure out how to back down the rpm as 65% is same as 100% and it doesen't seem to change as it is full boar or nothing,,,,,strange but I think it is a calibration thing or something I can do. Flight performance and soft start wise etc it is so far so good though....

CC helpful hints of proper setup
Been getting a few pms about the CC esc. One important thing to note is that either fixed or governor mode you have to ensure your tx throttle channel is calibrated to the esc you have, CC that is. Here is how, bob00 helped me out with this info sometime ago, it worked well.



The endpoints values that the CC ESC uses are fixed, so we must adjust the Tx ATV's to match. Will will use the ESC's beeps produced on entry to setup to do this.

1. blades off - just in case
2. adjust your Tx's THRO ATV's to 50%, assuming neutral is 50% - we want the THRO channel to produce center stick pulse width regardless of where the stick is
3. perform the following setup with no THRO curve (ie. 0 - 100 str line)
4. power up the ESC with the THRO stick in high position, the ESC should be seeing a mid-stick value and do nothing
5. slowly increase the THRO high ATV until the controller beeps indicating entry to setup mode - add a couple more clicks and you're done with high ATV (actual value may be quite low - vlaues in the 55 - 65 range are common)
6. disconnect the ESC
7. return the transmitter stick to bottom position
8. power up the ESC now with the Tx stick in low position
9. slowly increase the low ATV until the ESC arms - add a couple more clicks and you're done - again values may be surprisingly low depending on your tx your range could be anywheres from 65 -135.

This will have to be done again if you go from fixed to governor or vice vera, the range may be different between the two. Cheers
_________________
...Let fear be your guide to perfection...

[gordohigh]

Keep us posted. I am not real happy with the hacker esc I have on my ION and would love to go with something with a good gov and super soft start.(like my kontronic birds... :D )

[epc2]

Shawn , PLease get rid of that UBEC and use a separate Rx pack :shock: .

epc2.

[FrittsLogic]

I've now run my Jazz 55 on both a neu, and hacker motor. Works real nice. I've had the Jazz up to 89amp spikes during full power loops with no cutouts. I really think these are a viable option if you're not a non-stop hardocre 3d'er.

[OICU812]

Shawn , PLease get rid of that UBEC and use a separate Rx pack

If it goes it would go on the ground, I have these on 3 other E helis, a few of them with over 100 flights, never an issue, they don't get warm and they perform fine. I know several people said not to, but if it works and I have never had issues why change?
I actually was going to go with a sep pack "rx that is" and all that but I could not find anyone who had them in stock and then there is always the chance of a switch failing on them as well as Eric Larson even said in a post here as he had switches fail and he has used becs a ton, as well the lipo for the rx can go bad, you have to esure charging it etc,,, etc,,,, I know some disagree with things like this, but I have a big whack of flights on units worth as much as this Ion and I honestly like them and do not have issues with them, they perform great flight after flight and there is nothing else to check or worry about...

Anyhoooo back on topic, the esc is another one of those things many throw rocks at and by all means if powerjazz was available I would have bought one, I also think Fritts is right on the 55-10-32 as I myself have worked the 55s' on my logos to as many amps, I however would like to install a heatsink on one before using it on an Ion. Honestly though fellas I am quite surprised on the positive side of the bench on this CC controller though.
:wink:

[TomC]

Shawn,

Good on ya Mate. Like Sinatra, you are doing it your way! Using an esc that no one else has found works very well and a Ubec that has failed for many of us. Best of luck.

Cheers,

TomC

[OICU812]

Well I wouldn't compare myself to Sinatra that is for sure, lol. I don't really need the luck it is just fact, I wouldn't report false information. But yes the esc actually does work well, now is it because the newest firmware or what I do not know. I actually did not read any threads claiming the 85 didn't work which is why I decided to try it. And yes I am using the bec and have been for a year and half now on as stated 3 other machines, and I can fly those helis as hard as anyone and put as much demand on them as anyone could so I have no clue how people are blowing them up etc,,, alot of things that are said on any forum I find are complete jibberish and told from people that haven't a clue themselves. I will say however I find less of that on this site than any though, which,,,, is a real good thing.

BTW this heli in the beggining was abit of a learning curve but in all reality it is a peice of cake, just not as nimble as I'd like but once 12S is more proven out I will fix that in a hurry, cheers.

BTW I'd love to hear of how these BECs are failing people, why and when an in what application? Haven't experienced it myself, so I wonder what am I doing right or wrong? Only time I have read about a bec failure was on pilot error on how it was turned on or off, and on the bench as it is hooked up etc. I have yet to hear of one ever failing in flight which to me is all that matters anyways. I had a switch "duralite heavy duty" fail on my Raptor I had in flight as well and caused a complete kit and a ton of money, that convinced me that the system of switch and lipo also has the possibility of failure, I also had a lipo screw up on an Evo of mine which was a Fromoco one with reg and luckily I landed and got it off as well. On the other side as mentioned not one hitch so take it as you all like it but those are facts I have found. Anyhooooo guess I am brave to some, lol.

[TomC]

Shawn,

My Ubec failed during a pre-flight check. I applied a little pressure to the swash while moving the sticks. It sizzled, popped, and melted the shrink wrap. Lucky it did not do this in flight! You might want to consider adding this to your Pre-flight checks.

I've gone back to Sanyo 1700 AU nicad rx packs (without a switch) and an onboard voltwatch led meter. Very reliable, I just top it off every 3 flights.

Cheers,

TomC

[epc2]

The first time I tried and UBEC it failed on the ground also in a preflight check , everything was plugged correct and it melted the heat shrink and smoke came from the unit.

I use Li ion w/ reg. and no switches just Deans for battery/reg connections.

Anyway keep us posted on your test results.

epc2.

[OICU812]

Will do, still so windy here it is crazy, over 70mph all weekend, sucks. But yes I will indeed post some data on the esc as per amp pull and temps etc. So you guys know when I hook up I do a range check every first flight of the day and in that routine there is a 30-60 second window of where I am working the servos around and ensuring the operation is all good. As you guys have mentioned these failures were on ground which is what I am trying to say, I have not seen or heard of any "in flight". Each to their own, I just want less worry of the extra battery and switch and the charging. I know it is not a huge hassle I just feel there is as much opportunity of failure in the switch etc, as Ed states with just a Deans would be better for certain but still it is so easy ths way and for me,,, been reliable fellas. :cool:

[bob00]

I flew the UBEC for a while , trying to save some weight - the controls felt mushy, like flying with a marginal NiCad pack - didn't like it at all - switched back to regulated Lipo and the heli felt like it should again.

Bench checks showed the 5v UBec's output voltage was sagging badly under load. If you're just flying around with the occasional loop and roll it may be alright, but if you start to really work the machine you're missing out on how it should really feel.

Around here we all run Duralite regs with fail-safe switch - if the mechanical switch fails the cct remains closed.

- R

[rfaster]

Lost a poor swift with a 45Ultimate BEC - on start-up started to smoke - heli lifted off about 5 feet then came crashing down. I see lots of folks running bec's on smaller bird's - some with good luck as well. Funny thing is I just got a Joker 2 and the seller had a UBEC installed as well - I have replaced it with a duralite reg/heavy duty futaba on-off switch.

[OICU812]

Ok well now back on topic and away from the beatings I am getting on running a bec, lol. Here is a graph today on the Ion with the 85HV. I gotta tell you guys its been along time since I ran a CC esc and this one is impressing the hell out of me. Running 10/10 pitch on 690s and bagging the crap out of it to where I almost felt like the blades were going to stop on a pushover out of inverted forward I couldn't get this thing to peak amperage over 90 amps, which is weird as so many tell stories of well beyond 100,,,,,must be more pitch and abusing it more, not sure how that is possible as I purposely went for the most sloppy demanding collective I could go for to evaluate the governor "never lost HS or surged once", as well as the MAH out of lipo, and the general need to knows like Heat on the ec motor etc. BTW...my HS with Hacker at 100% even at 8 degrees was 1950rpm, with the CC it is 1970 and seems to be able to dump the power to the motor when you really push it.

Upon landing after the timer went off at 5:10mins, this flight with (2) 5s1P evos, the motor was 128 Degrees F on surface, the ESC was 65 Degrees F "yes really that low", and the lipos were only 80 degrees, ambient today was +14 Degrees Celcius, so cool but not chilly or anything. These imho are awesome temperatures and am very pleased with that. I ended up putting back in 2900mah back into lipos at this time frame and being very abusive, so that is abit high for how many mah I like to pull but I needed to evaluate a max abuse situation for myself.

Here is a graph with all the data, thought this may help someone for another option down the road. The one and only complaint I have is that the HS can not be governed speed wise, or at least I can not figure it out. As mentioned in a previous post 65% seems to be same as 100% and I am waiting for a response from CC on this and if that can be changed or somehow acheived.[/b]

[misskimo]

Shawn , well against all odds , and ready this , and my time is short , due to winter comeing , I went ahead and got a 85 to try 12s on my razor , Ill be running it with the 8 pole actro on 12s , hope to have it ready with in 10 days , well got to pack the heli up for a trip home from the remote worksite , but anyway , I sure hope it runs like yours
also got a hacker motor to try too , same KV as the actro 24-4 .
thanks to TPpacks , Gary :mrgreen:

Tony

[MAIONX]

wasn't will james using this esc for a while??? i think he still is?

[OICU812]

Well hey Tony, I felt just like you about this beleive me, I know your history of luck with these escs, it is pretty similar,,, in fact likely worse than mine. But no word of a lie guys, I have now flown this thing out 5 times since install and really banged it around and the governor is working amazing, as is the overall performance, pretty happy with it overall. Like I have stated though I can not seem to "dial back" the % of HS using my curves in tx with it, still waiting for an answer from CC on that part but from talking to a few others that is the same with their CC esc and helis.....

[WillJames]

I was using the CC HV-110 on my Ion-X with MUCH LESS than stellare results with the 1.51 firmware, puffed 4 EVO packs, B Smith did the same. Once I flashed to 1.51, I could never access the ESC again withthe castle link SW, like I have read a lot of people had the same problem. Sent it back to CC and it is now flying on my camera ship and working good, I am scared to check the firmware version due to pucker factor. ;)

Just ordered another CC HV-110 from Esprit Models and will be running it on my T-Rex 600 and maybe goign to 10s with a Tango 45-08 that remains unused for the last couple of months waiting for the MXR. I also got another 77-0 so one of those will be ont eh T-Rex.

I see CC now is up to 1.54 firmware so maybe it is fixed.......

Time will tell, it sure will be nice if CC gets it together......

[bob00]

oh oh - so who's going to be first with the new firmware?

- R

[BobbySmith]

HAHA Rob to funny

[OICU812]

The graph and results I posted are with the newest firmware, 1.54

[WillJames]

really quirky to get it to upgrade the 110.
then it wanted me to expand the endpoints past 100, to 105, to get it to recognise low throtle.
i am not expecting too much satisfaction from it, but had to give it another try.


Interesting..... Please let us know how it goes Mongo. Hopefully it will go good. You may want to use a set of your oldest packs for the first test flight especially if you are running 1p.



oh oh - so who's going to be first with the new firmware?

- R


HAHAHA Good one Rob.


As I said, it sure would be nice if CC gets it together on the Heli side of things.

[OICU812]

One thing to note fellas is that the lipos were only luke warm, even after this flight where I was sincerely pitch pumping it stupidly, these Evo cells can really push out the amps, and amazingly enough I had less than 20 seconds of balance time in the hookup, and less than 1:00 minute on the end of the charge at 75% C rate, pretty good stuff indeed.

This may sound silly but why would or is the 110 different than the 85 in regards to the programming and how it acts? By rights it should be the same and settings should have near same effects no?
:dontknow

[MAIONX]

geez this speedy must be really something!

[WillJames]

One thing to note fellas is that the lipos were only luke warm, even after this flight where I was sincerely pitch pumping it stupidly, these Evo cells can really push out the amps, and amazingly enough I had less than 20 seconds of balance time in the hookup, and less than 1:00 minute on the end of the charge at 75% C rate, pretty good stuff indeed.


Both sets of packs I puffed were not even warm either, they did not make it 2 minutes into the flight and they were done, but not hot. You are using the FDR which is great, keep an eye on the graphs until you are sure you are not over amping the packs, which it looks like you are not. If I remember correctly Bobby also did not have any heat in the packs he destroyed either. It was a expensive day for both of us, over 1K worth of packs killed off in 8 minutes of combined flying. :DOH

[OICU812]

Wow, that is expensive indeed Will. I will watch this for a few more flights and if all is the same I will have to assume the new firmware they have has resolved that or I am a lucky one with a good esc.....Either way I am happier than I was with the Hacker is all, so that is cool. :glasses2: