Tired of waiting for the new Razor

[wattybotts]

We did some "testing" at the field yesterday with my Actro setup, trying to see how long of a flight time an average sport flyer could get. I bumped the headspeed down to around 2000 rpm, (80% throttle curve straight line) and did some hovering, loops, rolls, stall turns, etc. At this time, in 50 degree weather, we got a 7 min flight, after which we put back 3200 mah into the packs. So I am estimating that on a warm day, an average sport flyer could safely get a 6 min flight time with the same setup I am using for 3d.

[TomC]

As a sport/light 3D flyer, I'm not real happy with 5-6 min flights, I'd perfer ~ 8 min.

Would FP 10s1p 5000's fit in the Razor and not weigh it down too much? These cells are too big and heavy for the Trex600 imop.

Cheers,

Tom C

[mudbogger2]

Gotta remember if you are not flying as hard as Bobby or some of the others you would get longer flight times on the same setup.

[wattybotts]

Tom,

In that case you might want to go with the Tango setup that Clint is running. He is getting a 7 min. flight on 3700's, and around a 8.5 min setup on 4350's.

[EricLarson]

I agree Bobby, the Tango was the motor I first chose as it is one of the most efficient available.

The Actro, Neu, and Hacker are all more powerful but at the cost of flight time.

With electric it is easier to get more power, it is just hard to find the balance.

[misskimo]

Hey Eric , theres nothing better than that actro 32-3 on 12s huh? that motor will pull like a tractor.
the Kontronics 45-06 on 12s pulls better than the 24-4 on 10s , like 10% better on the 600 mm blade Razor

[EricLarson]

Ya the only issue on the 600mm was disk loading and usability for the average user. On 10S and 3700 or even 4350 the disk loading is fine and a 1010 charger will charge 2 packs all day with no issues. Going to 12S is great for a lot of reasons but bad for others.

The larger heli IMO needs 12S to be able to do what "I" want it to. I need the power I have with nitro (preferably more), it needs to be clean power, and I need 6-7 min min. flight time with my flying style.

I am pretty early in the testing of the Stretch Razor but right now I am VERY optimistic. It is one of the most powerful heli's I have ever flown and right at 10lbs. It feels really light on the disk and has more power than I have ever had in the past.

Some more time will tell but right now it looks very promising.

[misskimo]

hey , on the 600 , you pretty much got what the blades can pump out with either the 1515 or the 1521, on 10s
about charging , Charlie told me that Balancing isnt really needed every charge, balance them every so often, like 20 cycles or more, I charge my 2 6s1p 3850, "the ones you had at IRCHA", I charge as 6s2p 7700 at 7 amps . the packs charged and balance themselves and for fellow E pilots that have the astro 109 thats limited to 9s , can charge there big packs in parallel as long as the packs are close to the same voltage before the start of the charge.
about the 32-3 running on 12s , thats a motor RPM of close to 26000 at the start of the pack, some time ago , like 2 or 3 years ago , they use to say there was a limited RPM to stay under, 25000 , well I think the reason why that was , ESCs couldnt switch fast enough for the 8 poles , now controllers are better at switching , the power band for the 24-4 is around 26500 rpms , which I ran this on the Razor. but I think the RPMs could be pushed even further off either motor , 24-4 and the 32-3,
I found this out this past summer , Bought my cousins Ion from him , the one he flew at IRCHA 2005 as a 50 , he said it was a 24-4 , but ended up being a 24-3, on 10s the motor RPMs is close to 28000 RPMs and man did it hit hard and geared 9.5 to 1 , 2700 on the head ,
Karls Ion 50 at IRCHA
http://www.augustoheli.com/videostuff/videoarchive/HelifreakArchive/I/
After I bought the Ion from Karl , I set it up with the VStabi, and back to a 90 size blades, tried it out in may at 50% throttle , I sure thought something was wrong then , then I tried it at 70% , flew it twice till it blew my 10s 6000s up , I went down south , MO event in June , on the first flight , I let Clint fly it , and I told him I going to bump it up to 100% . 2 10s2p in parallel . thats 4 lbs of batteries on here
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=Misskimo06&filename=IonWwrongMotorClintstoneMO-06.wmv
as you can see the gearing was just PLAN wrong for the motor , and if geared right like 14.25 , this would be a great power house , 24-3 on 10s

Tony



Ya the only issue on the 600mm was disk loading and usability for the average user. On 10S and 3700 or even 4350 the disk loading is fine and a 1010 charger will charge 2 packs all day with no issues. Going to 12S is great for a lot of reasons but bad for others.

The larger heli IMO needs 12S to be able to do what "I" want it to. I need the power I have with nitro (preferably more), it needs to be clean power, and I need 6-7 min min. flight time with my flying style.

I am pretty early in the testing of the Stretch Razor but right now I am VERY optimistic. It is one of the most powerful heli's I have ever flown and right at 10lbs. It feels really light on the disk and has more power than I have ever had in the past.

Some more time will tell but right now it looks very promising.

[OICU812]

I am very interested on what the final optimum setup might be on the stretched Razor 10S or 12S.

[EricLarson]

12S from everything I have seen. Again time will tell.

I tend to try back up my recommendations with a LOT of flying and really testing all options. When I get 2-300 flights on a setup that is working well I will be happy to recommend things :)

The main reason for 12S for me is flight time. On 10S I am limited to about 4.5-5 min. On 12S I can get 6 to maybe 8 depending on a few things with outstanding power. Also on 12S I am seeing cleaner more consistent power. Honestly for sport flying, 10S should work with no issues, but it is just like using the 8S setups in the 600mm Razor. They work, but just not as well. Keep in mind this is only my initial opinion and things may change. I ran 12S a few years ago, but ran into cell issues as the packs where just complex. Not with 1P packs this is a lot more realistic. We just need a 12S capable charger/balancer.

I would also personally not charge over 1C without a balancer monitor. For safetly and piece of mind I use my V-Balance or 1010 setup every charge. I recommend others do the same. I trust my equipment pretty well, but 1 mistake or imbalance and the results are just not worth it.

[OICU812]

Excellent Eric, I look forward to the final 12S recommendation on this heli. Thanks for input. :cool:

[WillJames]

Interesting info Eric, thank you for sharing. Can't wait to see the machine in person again. :)




I would also personally not charge over 1C without a balancer monitor. For safetly and piece of mind I use my V-Balance or 1010 setup every charge. I recommend others do the same. I trust my equipment pretty well, but 1 mistake or imbalance and the results are just not worth it.


Exactly Eric, I am not sure why anyone would not want the voltages of the individual cells in their packs to be as close as possible as they can be with balancing used every time. Definitely can't hurt the pack or the flying performance to fly the best matched and balanced packs. 1C is the ceiling of my charging as well. I want my packs to last as long as they can and produce the great power for as long as they can.

[misskimo]

hey , yeh I never charge over 1C , about the balance , the newest packs blent in together as 1P so well, its not really needed , example , I had a SBec hooked to 1 5s pack , flew for 8 min, and you would think the one pack would be a lower voltage since useing a bec off one pack , but when I shut down , by the time it takes to get my canopy off , both packs blend in and match themselves before I can unplug them , on the older G1 and Gen 2 , I use to have close to 1/4 of volt difference between my 2 packs because of the bec on one pack ,

[MAIONX]

this is belt drive on the Razor yes??...

with minimal modification it could be used on the Ion-x?

[misskimo]

:wink:

[misskimo]

I ran 12S a few years ago, but ran into cell issues as the packs where just complex. Not with 1P packs this is a lot more realistic. We just need a 12S capable charger/balancer.


Matty , Yes belt drive, a mod to the Ion, I dont know if you can do a few mods to it with the standard Razor belt drive , gears would works I suppose,
Eric should know , he said he converted a Ion a few years back for 12s useing a belt drive , But Im sure having a hard time remembering that. Eric what did you do as far as the Mod to 12S on the Ion????

[misskimo]

Eric , what mods did you do with the Ion on 12s a few years ago ? what batteries ? belt drive right ? , I didnt think there was a belt drive yet ? Chris didnt come out with it till last year , so 12s with a 2 stage would have been out of the question , 32-3 , that was a no no with a 95t back then , and I remember you having the 1521 !

Tony

[TomC]

Just a quick update on my waiting-for-the-Razor heli;

My Trex600 with my old stock Ion Hacker motor (c50/15xl) and with the new Align tail with thrust bearings is going very well. I've settled on a 100-90-100 idle-up throttle curve and this gives ~2250 nominal hs. I've slowly edged the pitch up to +/-12 deg, and the heli is ballistic, to say the least. I've had a couple of very good Raptor hyper 50 3D guys throw it around and they all say it has a lot more power than their helis.

I installed a 40mm 5v PC fan in front of the motor, blowing over it, and this seems to have solved my hacker heat problems. The highest temp I've seen after a 7 min run is 145 deg f. The esc max is 115 deg f and batteries are 105 deg f. Putting back in 2700-2900 mah. Main gear (170t) wear with a steel mikado 0.7 mod 10t pinion is minimal now that I tightened up the meshing a little bit.

Nice to have some toys to play with while waiting, waiting, waiting!

Cheers,

Tom C

[epc2]

Anybody knows if MA shipped any Razors Today???????

epc2.

[misskimo]

yes they did

[eheliflyer]

Just got a confirmation from UPS and mine is on its way. I will be getting mine the day after Christmas.
Thanks Tony for the help.

[misskimo]

good to know , I hope you get it before christmas :lol:

Tony

[eheliflyer]

The delivery date is for the 26th but that is close enough for me. :D
This is going to be a killer Christmas this year!!!!!!!!!!!! :smokin:

[Clintstone]

It will be worth the wait. It will be interesting to get feedback after they are flown.

[buster1]

I can't wait to get mine going,
I have decided on the Hacker 14S - CC HV110 - FP4350 combo.
Looking forward to all the results - will take my time building it through January and then give it a whirl.
Thanks guys for all the input,
Jeff