Flying & camera operation

[FLAME747]

Hi Guys,

Got a few questions about the operation of the still camera or video camera,
Providing you have enough extra channels to control the pan & tilt function of the camera mount

Do most of the advanced AP/AV pilots perform both function, meaning fly the heli & operate the camera/video equipment at the same time, or fly in pair’s pilot and someone else control the camera stuff.

Is it possible to use a head tracker module to control the pan/tilt function of the camera, and assign a switch to activate the shutter?

Also I’ve seen pic’s of camera mounts where the camera itself is enclosed in a globe, what’s the purpose of this.


Very curious about this subject matter,

Thanks,

FCA

[halley]

I'm by no means advanced AP, but I'll comment on what (I think) I know so far:

Do most of the advanced AP/AV pilots perform both function, meaning fly the heli & operate the camera/video equipment at the same time, or fly in pair’s pilot and someone else control the camera stuff.

The more professional/established the outfit, the more likely it will be a two person team: pilot and photographer/cinematographer. If you're combining pilot with camera responsibilities, you need to focus on the piloting first, and catch what images you can. This usually means not using a pan/tilt on the camera at all. A video downlink is usually for the photographer to frame the shots properly, not for the pilot to orient the flight properly.

Is it possible to use a head tracker module to control the pan/tilt function of the camera, and assign a switch to activate the shutter?

Yes, but hovering would be much harder. Flying FPV (video goggles) in a plane is easier than with a helicopter; in a heli you usually do not pan the camera, and you minimize the tilt action. Instead, you just yaw the aircraft with your rudder to pan the camera.

Also I’ve seen pic’s of camera mounts where the camera itself is enclosed in a globe, what’s the purpose of this.

Protects the camera from environmental risks, such as smoke from a gasser or nitro engine, or dust in some locales. Usually skipped for middle-sized electric rigs.

[Trnquill]

The more professional/established the outfit, the more likely it will be a two person team: pilot and photographer/cinematographer. If you're combining pilot with camera responsibilities, you need to focus on the piloting first, and catch what images you can. This usually means not using a pan/tilt on the camera at all. A video downlink is usually for the photographer to frame the shots properly, not for the pilot to orient the flight properly.
Well put. It is nearly impossible to control the camera and a heli at the same time. At least if you try to keep your target in the frame while flying past it or something like that. I have a tilt gimbal and only adjust the tilt angle while not actually shooting or moving the heli.

Controlling the main camera by head tracking would be actually quite a good idea. But you should also have a static FPV view or see the heli directly at all times to be able to fly the thing. Obviously head tracking combined with line of sight flying is not a good idea since you can only roll your eyes so far... :) I for one would be eager to test a following system:
-Wide angle view from stationary FPV camera fullscreen on goggles
-Head tracking controlled camera gimbal
-Video feed from the gimbal camera overlayed on top of the FPV view (smallish PiP image)

I guess it would take some time to get used to, though.

One major function of the ball around camera is eliminating variable wind drag. As the camera gets bigger and heli moves at high speed turning or tilting the gimbal can have huge effect on turbulence. A video camera pointing straight forwards generates much less turbulance than the same camera pointing down etc. If the camera is enclosed in a ball, it "looks" absolutely the same (what it comes to wind and turbulences) from every angle. So, the gimbal generates similar wind effect/turbulence in spite of camera orientation. Helps the pilot control the heli better.

[FLAME747]

Well I am going to start playing around with AP & AV using a small Nikon S220 mounted on my Trex 450 sport, Waiting for the mount to come in.

For now will have to settle for video, and random photos - can set the camera to take a pic every 30 seconds

If all goes well - will see about getting a downlink system, I would like to be able to use my digital camera, but not sure I will be able to connect the camera to the downlink tx using the standard rca plugs that came with the camera

So very basic - poor mans AP/AV for now

Any tips on shooting good video, fly slow, no quick movements, do I need to adjust my D/R

Thanks,

FCA

[Navigator53]

Hey Flame,

I think one of the things I'll work toward is using the rudder more and the ailerons less when making a turn to keep the view level.

Since we're both using Helicommand's, we have no excuses now :...:

Mel

[FLAME747]

Hi Mel,

Did you finally decide on which camera you are going to buy?

I am still waiting on the mount the come in, I think the online store I purchased it from is a small setup, they were very slow in responding to my emails & shipping.

The Nikon S220 I currently have is not the best, but at least it's cheap so if I crash the lost won't be that great.

Once I install the mount, I will do a couple of test flight and review the quality of the pics & vids - The Nixon S220 does have an interval timer - so since I don't have a way to fire the shutter, it will take pics every 30 seconds.

Talk again soon,

FCA



Hey Flame,

I think one of the things I'll work toward is using the rudder more and the ailerons less when making a turn to keep the view level.

Since we're both using Helicommand's, we have no excuses now :...:

Mel

[Navigator53]

Hi Flame,

I went ahead and ordered http://www.panasonic.net/avc/lumix/compact/fp3_fp2_fp1/index.html $214.00

Nifty little camera with touch screen & HD video and does consecutive shooting.

I'm not sure if I have to hold the shutter button down with a piece of bubble gum or push it once and it just keeps on firing, I can't seem to find an online manual to read up on it in the meantime.

It'll take 300 shots on a battery, should be able to get at least one decent photo outta all that.

Before I put the camera on, I'll put something equal in weight on first to get a feel on how the little 450 handles, rather smash up a piece of wood before a camera.

Mel



Hi Mel,

Did you finally decide on which camera you are going to buy?

I am still waiting on the mount the come in, I think the online store I purchased it from is a small setup, they were very slow in responding to my emails & shipping.

The Nikon S220 I currently have is not the best, but at least it's cheap so if I crash the lost won't be that great.

Once I install the mount, I will do a couple of test flight and review the quality of the pics & vids - The Nixon S220 does have an interval timer - so since I don't have a way to fire the shutter, it will take pics every 30 seconds.

Talk again soon,

FCA

[c4v3man]

If the FP3 is anything like the LS75 I use for AP, or the TZ5 the wife and I use for normal photos:
A: You will need to hold down the shutter button to have it take continuous photos. I bought some velcro straps from walmart and use them to hold down a piece of packing foam (it is springy, not stiff). Works for me. I just power on the camera looking at a distant object to get the focus set and have it start taking photos.
B: The TZ5 I have does 720p video as well, and you can take a video, play it back on the camera, and press the shutter button while watching the video to have it save stills so you don't have to mess with that on your computer. Kinda handy if you just need some low resolution photos.

Good luck!

Also, while I do love my panasonic's for their ease of use, compactness, and overall quality, Canon's (such as the SD780, which has most/all of the features you seem interested in) might be better long term for AP, due to the use of CHDK (Canon Hacker Development Kit) which allows you to have it take pictures without you holding down the shutter key, and program different sets of actions (scripts), which would give you the ability to, say, have it autofocus before each shot (not necessary, perhaps even a bad thing, but the option is there), adjust the amount of time between shots (have it take one picture every 5 seconds, etc), take different shutter speed photos during the same shoot at different intervals, and even fire the shutter by sending a signal through the usb port. These are best done if you are technologically proficient, so if you're not, then perhaps the panny is the best option.

[FLAME747]

How type of radio are you guys using for AP/AV, how many channels in total do you need for the pilot to operate a dedicated AP ship with all of the standard electronics & HeliCommand

Do most Pro’s need more that 9channels

Thanks

FCA

[wlfk]

How type of radio are you guys using for AP/AV, how many channels in total do you need for the pilot to operate a dedicated AP ship with all of the standard electronics & HeliCommand

Do most Pro’s need more that 9channels

Thanks

FCA

Not a pro, but I managed with 6 channels. I built a device with a gyro output (you can also get gyros where you set the gain manually) and that had one output to control the shutter, and one to control the tilt setting on the camera. You can control the tilt setting by flicking the gyro gain switch up and down once, to move to the next tilt setting. And you can control the shutter by moving the gyro control switch high, then leaving it there to select automatic shooting.

Also bought a pre-broken camera on Ebay. You don't need the LCD screen whilst you're flying. I used the LCD output and a monitor to choose the correct setting on the ground. A very cheap setup.

[doeni]

7 channels for heli + helicommand
tilt
pan
roll
shutter
retractable landing gear


So a hell of a lot, but i guess then you have a second person doing it...

Btw, just start cross reading this forum from front to back, all your questions have been answered before

Daniel

[Navigator53]

Great idea on the CHDK

I do have a Canon G2, problem is that it weighs almost as much as my 450 :thinking

Mel


Also, while I do love my panasonic's for their ease of use, compactness, and overall quality, Canon's (such as the SD780, which has most/all of the features you seem interested in) might be better long term for AP, due to the use of CHDK (Canon Hacker Development Kit) which allows you to have it take pictures without you holding down the shutter key, and program different sets of actions (scripts), which would give you the ability to, say, have it autofocus before each shot (not necessary, perhaps even a bad thing, but the option is there), adjust the amount of time between shots (have it take one picture every 5 seconds, etc), take different shutter speed photos during the same shoot at different intervals, and even fire the shutter by sending a signal through the usb port. These are best done if you are technologically proficient, so if you're not, then perhaps the panny is the best option.

[Navigator53]

Hey wlfk,

Can you provide more details and maybe photos of how you did this?

Flame, Splitboarder & I have been on a cram course for some time now just to get this far.

Mel

Not a pro, but I managed with 6 channels. I built a device with a gyro output (you can also get gyros where you set the gain manually) and that had one output to control the shutter, and one to control the tilt setting on the camera. You can control the tilt setting by flicking the gyro gain switch up and down once, to move to the next tilt setting. And you can control the shutter by moving the gyro control switch high, then leaving it there to select automatic shooting.

Also bought a pre-broken camera on Ebay. You don't need the LCD screen whilst you're flying. I used the LCD output and a monitor to choose the correct setting on the ground. A very cheap setup.

[FLAME747]

Hey Mel,

I know that you already ordered the camera, but have you ordered a mount, if so which on did you choose?

Still waiting for mine to come in from fpvpilot.com

FCA

[wlfk]

I sold the prototype to a guy who made this video:

http://www.photography-insider.com/watch/4901862/Demonstration-of-the-APbuddy-AP-system

The only thing I would say about it is, if you like programming ESCs you'll love this!

[FLAME747]

Hi Mel,

To control the shutter of the camera using your radio if you have an extra channel available, check this out http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16163&cat=265&page=1

Also I think this will allow you to use your digital camera for fpv, but you might have to buy the downlink system from them, I have not had time to call to find out http://www.futurehobbies.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=184&category_id=21&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53

Still doing research,

FCA



S

[Navigator53]

Hey Flame, thanks for the links!

Splitboarder turned me on to these sites, not sure if you already know about them, but the more we share info, the more we can all learn.

http://www.dvinfo.net/

http://www.cnchelicopter.com/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.lynda.com/ for video editing, Splitboarder is a video guru on this stuff!

http://www.videohelp.com/

Still doing research too

Mel