What gearing for ION-X with Evo 20 5s2p 5000mah?

[Willy J]

I just picked up an ION-X from another member on this list that was used for AP. I got the heli with a 60 tooth secondary gear and 710 blades and have till now been running round cell packs consisting of 32 GP 3700's. The performance was good enough to get to know the new machine but I need more power and flight time. I'm not really to into heavy 3D yet so I'm looking for a good secondary gear for simple aerobatics and longer flight times. I have a 54 tooth gear but haven't tried it with either set of batteries. I forgot to mention the heli is for the most part all stock and still has the Hacker ESC and motor and I have a few new sets of 5s2p 5000 mah Evo 20's. I have read the 710's are a bit much so I'll try some other lightweight 690's I have from my Spectra G (since it spends more time sitting now that the new electric bird has stolen the spotlight!!) :lol: Anyway Thanks for any info you guys could offer!!

Bill W. Milan, IL

[MinAirChris]

Hello Bill

With the Hacker motor/esc and a pair of 690's, the 54 tooth gear should do just fine. With the new 5000 Evo packs I would think you will see a "top of charge" headspeed of right at 1800 to 1900 rpm in a hover.

Performance will be "60-like". Very smooth and efficient.

Chris

[Willy J]

Hi Chris thanks for your input. I did put on the 54 tooth gear and have been doing some flying with it and it's OK but I can see the need for more power. What would be a good next step in making some more power? Can I gear the Hacker a little differently for more performance? I've been told to just go to another motor like the Actro and be done with it but I hate to give up so easily on the stock power system if there is more to be had from it. Thanks again!

Bill W.

[misskimo]

well I dont know if you wanna here this , but the 2 stage belt drive will be out soon , so look out , theres a ton of ratio for all kinds of motors ,
Hacker , it should do fine , but like Chris said , it can only dish out so much.
round cells should do fair , but if you really want to upgrade it , get a set of TP 8000s for long flights like 8 min , or 2 5s 4600s for something like 6 min flat out. that heli will love the lower weight of either packs I just mentioned. the 8000 prolites weigh about 5 to 6 oz less than the 32 GP 3700 , which I think weigh like 4 lbs 4 oz. 5s 4600 X 2 weigh like 2 1/2 lbs ,


Tony

[Willy J]

Wow, Belt drive would be nice, Can't wait!! Actually I have picked up a few sets of Evo 20 5s2p 5000's and have only a few flights in on them but they seem to give a good balance of duration and weight savings over my round cells. The round cell packs were something like 1156 grams per side and the Evo's are about 680-690. I was getting about 4 1/2 to 5 minutes of very lazy flying with the rounds which wasn't enough for me. I only have a few flights in on the Evo packs but I just did a little over 6 minutes of flips rolls and loops and put 3120mah back into the packs. I'd be happy with about 6 1/2 to 7 minutes of flight which I read may come after some more break in cycles on the packs???
Another question, how much does the timing affect the power / run time of these brushless motors? I remember the days of RC car racing and tweaking the motor timing and it had a pretty good affect on power (but at the cost of run time). I have the program box for the Hacker ECS and can't remember what the timing is currently but wonder if a few more degrees would boost my power a bit?

Bill W.

[misskimo]

Hey Willy , if thats the Bone stock Ion with the motor and esc package then everything is set like it should be for the amount of power it can produce , to verifi this , look on the motor , if it says Ion motor , than thats all a package deal with everything set . I think Will had a set of those Batteries , Will where are you , can you chime in on the evo 20 10s2p 5000 ,

[MinAirChris]

Hi Bill

With the Hacker motor there is not a lot more power to be had with where your at for batteries. If you were to go to lighter batteries, say the 3850's from TP, then you would probably be O.K. to go a little shallower on the gear ratio as the thermal soaking of the motor would not be that long and the load would be reduced from the lighter batteries.

Advancing the timing will not do a lot for you but heat the motor up a bit quicker.

Have you tried different blades? You mentioned trying some different lengths but what kind of blade are you using? There is a lot to be gained here depending on what your using now. I found the MAH G-2's in a 700mm to give very lively performance in both cyclic and collective. The tapered chord makes a big difference on this heli. If you can find a pair, TG made an "all round 3D" blade that was also tapered and not aerodynamically unstable like the MAH's.

FWIW

Chris

[MAIONX]

hi guys,

sorry i am going to steal this thread for 2 seconds :glasses:

i am into heavy to smooth 3d, with my ion as a std setup i have super light Vblades, 55tooth gear hacker motor and speedy.

running a full throttle flat line idle up curve, what headspeed, and power would i get with the 3700 5s1p evo 20's?

[WillJames]

Either the 3700 or the 4350 EVO Packs would lighten the load. You could also drop down to 50T or 48T secondary to get the headspeed and quickness of the heli up. Personally I don't enjoy flying any E-Heli below about 2K on the head unless it is a camera machine.

The 5000's fly good on it too, they are very good on my single stage 32-3 Ion. I just prefer the machine as light as possible and with the 4350 EVO Packs is my favorite setup.

[MinAirChris]

MAIONX

Please DO NOT use anything less than a 52 tooth gear on the Hacker motor unless you are using short duration battery packs. Pushing that motor over 2500 watts in a heli has been deemed a no-no by it's maker. You may get away with it a little if you can keep the flight times low...i.e. the small/light packs. The 48 and 50 tooth gear combined with longer flight times will almost certainly bring it to an early demise.

Chris

[WillJames]

I read Bill's original post better (sorry very busy) and Chris is definitely correct. The Hacker is not going to last that long, although, there are some people who do get away with it like Shannon Davis running the 50T with TP 8000's and long flight times. It is better to avoid. Upgrading the motor is what will make that setup hotter for longer..

Belt drive out soon, sounds good to me, but I have heard it may not be that soon as it needs to be thoroughly tested first. Personally I would rather see it tested first then released once it is spot on. I know Bobby talked to a lot of people about it, but I think it will not be released until everybody is sure it is ready.

[MinAirChris]

That is true Will

But if I am not correct, I believe Shannon was doing the GV-1 thing and governing the motor back....right? This would have greatly reduced the loading on the motor.

Chris

[WillJames]

Not correct?? hehehe You ARE correct, as usual Chris. :noteworthy

Yes he is running a GV-1 when it is working right and sensors stay working. ;)

You know when they made Shannon, they broke the mold. :)

[mr 3d]

hey guys im sorry to hijack this thread but it seems to me this is the only place i see ppl talking about the ion im am desperete to find a 100th main gear and actro single stage conversion set for my new ion the heli is brand new never flown i have the actro motor i just need the conversion stuff iv tried ricks heliproz no one has them in stock i tried ordering it threw ricks but im still waiting what can i do to get these parts im desperate iv always flown min air helis i wish i could just get the parts

[WillJames]

You should be able to get all of that from MA direct.

[Willy J]

Thanks to everyone for their help on this topic! I'm still green when it comes to the ION but I'm really liking this heli!! My only prior experience with E-Heli's is my T-Rex SE. It's a great little heli but it just doesn't take the high winds where I live to well like the ION and my Spectra G do.

It sounds like I should of maybe picked up a few sets (probably will now) of the 5s1p packs for a lighter heli / better performance. I chose the 2p's thinking they would give longer duration and I could also use the added flight time for some novice AP work to boot. They are certainly an improvement over the round cell packs I have been flying.

The Hacker motor I have is the one that came with the kit and it seems to do pretty well but a little more power would be nice. What's the life expectancy of this motor doing really basic aerobatics and a little AP every now and then? I wouldn't mind trying out the Actro setup but wonder if the Hacker ECS will hold up OK with it? Also where is a reasonable place to buy the actro motor? A quick search on the net didn't really turn up many US sources other than right from MinAir. What's a good price for the motor?

As for blades I have a set of Sab 710's which are about 165-170 grams, a set of 680 Thunder tiger carbons which are about 175-180 grams and I have a set of Maverik 700's which are very heavy weighing in around 235 + grams. I have been flying the Sab's but am going to try the shorter blades now that I have the newer batteries and see how the work out. I flew the Maveriks a few times with the round cells and they gave just a bit less run time than the Sab 710's.

Anyway, Thanks again for all your help!!

Bill W.

[WillJames]

The Hacker 77-O Heli can handle the ACTRO and Single Stage very well for many many flights. As light as possible 700's or 690's is what most of the Ion guys I know fly on Li-Po's.

In high winds you may want the 4350's for a little extra weight and wind penetration, especially if you are used to a heavier setup. The 4350's weigh about 4-6 ounces more than the 3700's.

[MAIONX]

hi Chris, thanks for the info,

he was originally running a 53 tooth gear with this motor, i will see how it performs with this 55tooth, if its a little slow i might try the 53 tooth.

he used to go for about 12 minute flight times and the motor would come off at about 180degrees C.

no wonder he blew the first motor up and the speedy!!

[Chachin]

Hello Matty, I hope you meant 180 deg F, not C :shock:

My Hacker motor with 55t comes out between 150 to 165deg F approximately with long 10min flight times using the 8000 ProLites. But my style of flying is not HARDCORE, so temps may vary. Maybe that's why my Hacker motor has lasted so long after being Kevlar wrapped.

Chachin..

[MAIONX]

yeah chachin i am saying 180deg C. just ask TomC i think he used his temp guage on it once... and thats what it was around

[MinAirChris]

The Actro conversion kit or 124-110 complete with the 100 tooth gear is available from us direct or can be ordered through our distributors. I make those up myself but usually there are one or two in stock here at all times. There was a time of several months where I could'nt make them up as we had no 10 tooth pinions, but that is over now.


Hobby club in CA as well as Hollein in Germany are great sources for the motor.

Chris

[mr 3d]

i didnt know i could order streight from min air i can finaly get my new ion going i sent cindy a email chris thank u for leting me know i just hope i get it going soon

[Willy J]

Thanks Chris for the info on the mount and the Actro motor. Do you have the motor and the mount in stock? I couldn't find the mount in the online store. I tried to find the motor and or mount from one of your dealers but most everybody is out of stock so I may just order it direct.

Another question on the Hacker. What goes out on them? I'm sure longevity depends on how it's used or abused. Mine was purchased used but I know it was only used for about a year doing AP work and little more. I would say it has lived a pretty easy life up to now but hate to risk losing a heli if they are known to fail easily. I see no signs of anything being wrong with the motor but I really don't know how they fail so I have to ask, "How did 'your' Hacker fail"?

Thanks, Bill W.

[TomC]

Bill,

Do a search and you'll find a lot of gory details. Basically the sign of mine failing was an increase in headspeed. This is because the motor kv increases as the magnets demag. When it failed (in flight) it must have reved the head up to 3000 rpm before stripping every tooth on the secondary gear. I sent it back to hacker and they replaced it with a new kevlar wrapped one with better bearings. I have not had a problem after +100 flights. If yours is an older one (~pre-sept 2005) you might want to think about sending it in for a rebuild now. It should not be very expensive.

Cheers,

Tom C

[Chachin]

Yeap, that's how the orignal owner of my Ion described it. A sudden increase in rpm was the sign. It was only his 25th flight or so. Soon after that I bought the heli and the motor had just been upgraded to the kevlar wrapped version. I've put about 120+ flights since then without any issues :D.

Chachin..