Swash phasing on the 14MZ/12Z/FX40

[RCfan]

There's a guy over at the Futaba Flyers Club looking for example swash mixing (phasing) done on 14MZ radios (or FX-40, 12Z). I ran a search and only found one post from rampage-1 (PM'd him), but if others have actually done this (I know the theory, but never had anything to try it on), can you please post some example models.

Just for FYI, here's the link to the post over at FFC (you need to be a registered user): LINK (http://www.14mz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=306&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)

--Felix

[flyinfool]

I do use the swash mix to fine tune phasing issues, but it is not eCCPM or flybarless.

[DavidH]

Phase mixing is basically an elevator to aileron mix or vice versa. I have always used a phase mix to help with rolling maneuvers. I will have to look and see how I have it set on my 12Z.

David

[RCfan]

Here's the convo in case you can't get into FFC:

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lmiranda
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: Phasing for Flybarless head Reply with quote
Can anyone tell me how to program the 14mz for phasing on flybarless head. I prefer to have the links straight on the swashplate and do the phasing in the radio. I don't find any reference to it in the manual. I have also searched the 14MZ and cannot figure it out.

This is a 3 servo CCPM setup.

Any help would be appreciated.

Larry
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flugo
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
See: http://www.14mz.com/faq/faq-14mz-q807.html ... pretty useless though, Sad

I haven't had to do this myself, but I assume you have to mix all three channels to "remove" any interaction introduced by phasing (i.e. normalize it).
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lmiranda
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: swashplate phasing Reply with quote
Thanks for the reply flugo.

That does not help much. In normal flybared heads the flybar shifts the phasing mechanically by mere fact that it is mounted 90 degrees to the blades. 90 degrees is the phasing required for a 2 blade flybarless head, so the radio would have to shift the phasing 90 degrees if no flybar is present. Likewise the radio wolud have to shift 3 blade, 4 blade, etc. something less then 90 degrees. I'm sure it is in the14MZ as the 9Z had the capacity to do that.

So, somebody please help!
Larry
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flugo
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
I know it's not immediately evident from Futaba's FAQ description or the Swash Mix info in the manual. Swash phasing (rotation) done by a radio is a mix. On the 9Z the rotation is entered as a single parameter and the radio automatically performs the channel mixing (convenient but not very flexible as it assumes identically operating servos and zero slop in linkages). The 14MZ provides the flexibility to mix each channel pair independently (more granular). The hardest part in setting up these mixes is figuring-out how to set each's interaction properly, which depends on head rotation direction, # of blades, phasing angle, etc.

It would be very convenient to have a parameter that you can use to establish the initial mix curves (ala 9Z rotation angle) and then allow you to tweak each mix independently (Bill, hope you're reading this).

--Felix
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lmiranda
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: swashplate phasing Reply with quote
Thanks again flugo

Sounds to me like you have a good handle on how it works.

I hope that someone will give us some program mixing examples.

Larry
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flugo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
Quote:
Sounds to me like you have a good handle on how it works.


HA! Wink

I'll search around for someone that has done this and get them to provide a sample model file. Do you have any particular setup to go after (# blades, swash configuration, head rotation, etc.)?

Edit: I started a topic over at HeliFreak asking for sample models. Here's the link: LINK

--Felix
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jborowski
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Humor me here, I've never played with a flybarless head.
If you are after a 90* shift in the phasing, would it not make sense to turn the bottom of the swash 90* to get you in the ballpark and then use the swash mix to fine tune it.
Or am I just over simplifying it?

[DavidH]

Swash Mix in the model menu,

Aileron > Elevator
Linear mix
10% down elevator for full left aileron ( Rate A)
10% up elevator for full right aileron ( Rate B)

Aileron is the Master
Elevator is the slave.

One precentage will be negative the other will be positive.
I use the above to keep the model rolling straight and on track.
I Group the mix for the idle up conditions.

[Nasscar]

It's nice to see that DavidH is till up to training people on radios.

DavidH was the 1st person that showed me how to program my WC2 when I received it from Cyberheli. "Thanks DaveH" for your support.

If you remember me I use to chat on the Heli IRC Chat. "Nasscar][" Totalkaos friend in Delaware.

[DavidH]

Hobert,

Good to hear from you. I see you posting on the other forums. One thing about Futaba radios. They change them some, but the way of doing things basically remains the same. So it is not difficult to do. I have been using Futaba radios since 1990.
You should hang out on Helifreak more.

David