Any comments about the Spartan AP-2000i flight stabiliser

[heliplt]

I was thinkng about buying the AP-2000i flight stabilizer to try on my AP heli and I would like to hear from other users of this unit first.
:cheers

[AZ ChopperCam]

do a search on here... lots of positive feedback on the unit.

Without it I would not be able to take alot of the photos I do. I'm a one-man shooter and it holds the heli shiny side up while I frame up my shots. There are times when I'm looking at the monitor for 7 - 10 seconds at a time. Could never do that without the AP.

[dreslism]

do a search on here... lots of positive feedback on the unit.

Without it I would not be able to take alot of the photos I do. I'm a one-man shooter and it holds the heli shiny side up while I frame up my shots. There are times when I'm looking at the monitor for 7 - 10 seconds at a time. Could never do that without the AP.

Dito, I am a solo operator also, and this is because of the ap2000i.

I do 50 yard line vertical shots of an entire football stadium/track and all from ~300 ft up while looking at my monitor for extended periods of time.

I need to pick up another one, that new logo is a squirelly little fella.... :D

[Griffo]

I'm also looking to get one of these for my Logo 20. Does it require an extra channel for gain or anything like that? My chanels seem to be all taken up already :roll: .

[MarkWebber]

Griffo

I did just respond to your email regarding this question. For those that have the same question, the AP2000i does require one channel for gain input. Preferably, this should be on a sliding switch for best control. However, it may be used on a single or multi-position switch. For those finding themselves short on spare channels, the AP2000i may be configured to control your gyro gain setting. Typically, servo output #4 remains unused (this is for 4 servo CCPM swashplates). You can plug your gyro gain lead in this output and set the gain within the AP2000i program menu screen.

And, to answer the first question, I'm with DJ and Scott. I use it on my Intrepid and wouldn't want to go back. I can't imagine doing solo shoots without one.

[LoopBaCK]

I say buy it!

I use one on a Swift with front camera mount. If you watch the heli fly you can definitely tell when it's me and when it's the stabilizer! I'm also a one-man shooter and have done it with and without the stabilizer. However after using the stabilizer I feel it is a necessity one the AP heli. Am going to be getting an e-Raptor and the AP2000i is absolutely on the equipment list.

A stabilizer on a heli is like using a tripod on the ground. Big difference in steadying the platform. Those extra few seconds it holds the heli stable are all the difference in the world.

[dreslism]

Wow I did not realize there were so many other solo shooters out there. I thought I was the only one with no friends. :wink:

It would be cool to have a solo shooters get together. Man we could clean up!

[Griffo]

Thanks Mark, I'll probably get you email when I get back to work :).
I know you've probably covered this before but when will your sensors be available. I don't want to fork out for an FMA infrared if the inertia sensors are only just around the corner.

[Nitrospazzz]

I have on as well, and when I have used it I loved it. I always forget to switch it on when I'm up there :arggg: so I spend the time flying while my cameraman (little brother) frames up stuff and takes the shots. I gotta bring the bergen out to the field today...weather pending...and see what that thing is all about

[qb7ops]

I am in the process of purchasing an AP2000i to play around with on my Trex SE. Regarding the inertial sensor, I have yet to come across any information on any forum as to when it will be available. My concern was the same; preferred not to dish out the dinero's if it came available a week later. I gave in and bought the
FMA. :lol:

Here is a good post regarding the AP2000i.
http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=14593&sid=df5a9cf12ea1e3ce255189c8f687f5a9

Although I primarily stick with Helifreak due to the level of professionalism here, there is a couple of AP2000i related posts on other forum sites worth reviewing. Check out this one....
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t228194p1/

(Moderator; please let me know if it is considered poor etiquette on Helifreak to link other RC forum sites.)

Lachlan

[GGoodrum]

I have three AP-2000i units and I whole-heartedly concur that it makes it much easier to do single person shots. With the latest software that Angelos just released, there is now an auto-cal function that makes this really easy to use. The lowest 5%, or so, of the gain channel is used to tell the AP-2000i to go into the auto-cal function. You can "mix" this input with a switch so that with the switch on, it turns on the cal function for about a second. All you do is get the heli in a hover, at the desired spot, with the switch off and the gain down. You then turn the switch on for a second, then off. This causes the AP-2000i to "remember" the current attitude. Then you just dial up the gain and it holds it there. :)

The only thing the inertial sensors will do is allow you to basically change the heading of the helicopter without screwing up the attitude holding. If you can live with not changing heading, the IR-based sensors, with this new auto-cal function works quite well.

Next, Angelos will be adding support for an altitude sensor so that he can add an altitude hold function. With that, we will have something very close to a "hands off" capability.

-- Gary

[qb7ops]

Gary,

Quick question on your last message. I thought the big advantage of the inertial sensor is to allow stabilization without line of sight with the horizon? Basically, the ability to stabilize when hovering around buildings, etc. My "newbie" understanding is that the FMA sensor only operates in sight of the horizon. Could you please clarify this for me?

Thx - Lachlan

[dreslism]

Gary,

Quick question on your last message. I thought the big advantage of the inertial sensor is to allow stabilization without line of sight with the horizon? Basically, the ability to stabilize when hovering around buildings, etc. My "newbie" understanding is that the FMA sensor only operates in sight of the horizon. Could you please clarify this for me?

Thx - Lachlan

No the fma or any IR sensor is just a differential sensor. It provides a IR differential between left and right and front and back. That is all.

It does not need to see the earths horizon.

The issue with an IR sensor that people complain about with being around buildings is that if with stabilization on, and your heli trimmed at 50 ft above a 20ft building, then you come down close to the 20 ft building, it will start to push you away from the building as it sees the 20ft building as a heat source which means to it that you are tilting towards the ground, so it pushes you away from it.

The other issue is if I am near that 20 ft building with stabilization on, the heli trimmed to not get pushed away from the building, and the side of the heli facing the building, now do a 180 piro, and you will start to get pushed away from it as left has now become right and right left and you reversed the temperature differential being input to your system with regards to the way the heli was facing.

The big advantage of an inertial sensor is that it's reading are not affected by you being near a building or rotating 180.

If the IR differential is known while you are at a building and you can say "this is the reference, or I am now level", then when you enable the stabilization, there is no pushing of the heli unless you rotate to a point where the sensor sees a new IR differential.

This is the latest in air calibration that Angelos provided.

Put your heli in the air with stabilization off. trim your heli so it is level and stable. Hit the calibrate button. What this does is store the current IR readings as the reference or zero or level ( however you want to think about it). Now when you turn up the gain on your stabilizer the heli won't move as nothing has changed from the reference.

Before this new feature, the second you turn stabilization on, you would have to trim all over again.

[GGoodrum]

No, you don't need line-of-sight to the horizon at all, to hold a position. I think to get day-to-day repeatability, where you don't have to mess with the trims each time, not having something in the way will make it work better, but these sensors are very sensitive. It has no problem detecting the ground from the sky, even on cloudy days. With the new cal procedure, you don't have to worry about trimming or any other sort of "fine tuning". What you do is get the helicopter in a stable hover, at the spot you want, and then hit the "Cal" switch. The unit then uses the current attitude as a reference point that it will try and hold once you turn the gain up and give it control. For this sort of scenario, the IR sensors are more than up to the task. Like I said, the only thing the inertial snesors will add is the ability to do piroettes, something I don't require.

In terms of priorities, I'd much rather see the altitude hold function added before implementing support for inertial sensors. :)

-- Gary

[qb7ops]

Scott,

Thank you tons for the excellent explaination! Although I have read AP2000i documentation and other post information, I guess I still did not fully understand (or mis-interpeted) system capabilities. I am still quite new to heli flight and have had quite a "pitch curve" learning on my own. Proper interpretation of technology and terminology goes a long, long way. :D

Thanks again - Lachlan

[qb7ops]

Thanks for the further clarification and input Gary. I am certainly looking forward to the relatively ease of operation.

I have heard so much good talk about the system so it will be interesting to see how it will handle on my small Trex SE.

[Teej]

One thing I'm curious about....wind.

Does a wind tilt the heli enough that the 2000 will correct it and, while not being a full "position hold", adjust for? Or does your hover become a level translation across the ground at wind speed?

T

[dreslism]

One thing I'm curious about....wind.

Does a wind tilt the heli enough that the 2000 will correct it and, while not being a full "position hold", adjust for? Or does your hover become a level translation across the ground at wind speed?

T

It becomes level translation across the ground at wind speed. A slight resting of the thumb in the correct direction of the wind is all that is needed to keep from sliding across the sky.

[GGoodrum]

If it is a steady wind, you would be countering that when you first set up the hover. Doing the cal and then engaging the system will hold it in the wind. It is only gusting wind, or a wind that comes up after cal that would cause it to then want to drift. The other day I had a pretty steady sideways breeze and once i had it stable in a hover and cal'd, it held it fine.

-- Gary

[MarkWebber]

The shoot I did on Sunday was breezy. There were occasional gusts and I knew right away as my heli would drift. When the wind was holding steady it would stay where it was put. It was a wide open site and I did my calibration on the ground just to see how it would respond in the air. I'm starting to think I'm hooked on the calibration feature. :wink:

[SeaHawk]

too cool! :glasses2:

Definitely on my shopping list. I also shoot solo (kids kept hitting me up for greater percentage of job fees, so I fired them). I think there are alot of us out here that shoot solo. AP 2000i look like the ticket for all us loners. :hug:

[MarkWebber]

kids kept hitting me up for greater percentage of job fees, so I fired them

:lol:
Dang subcontractors!

[Nate Dogg]

can anybody sugest how to better set up my futaba 9chp for solo AP stuff? So far here's what I've got:
camera pan on left slider
camera tilt on right slider
camera shutter on top right switch (channel 9)
ap200i gain on knob "A" (channel 5)
Idle up on switch "E"

I'm having trouble understanding mixes and how to get the ap200i to calibrate. Please help! Thanks in advance...

[heliplt]

Ok guys thanks for all of your input , I'm sold !
I just orderd everything I need and hopefully this will help on the big jobs like the one we just finished.
We were hired to shoot the D-day Memorial in Bedford, Virginia ........That was a lot of pressure.
Thanks again :smokin:

[dreslism]

can anybody sugest how to better set up my futaba 9chp for solo AP stuff? So far here's what I've got:
camera pan on left slider
camera tilt on right slider
camera shutter on top right switch (channel 9)
ap200i gain on knob "A" (channel 5)
Idle up on switch "E"

I'm having trouble understanding mixes and how to get the ap200i to calibrate. Please help! Thanks in advance...

I have the 9C(A)P instead of the H, but basically the same except for a few minor switch layout.

For your camera shutter, I highly recommend using your trainer switch as it is spring loaded. Pull it and hold it and you're taking picts. Let go, picts stop. No flipping a switch back and forth.

As for the ap2000i calibration setting. You have the new firmware loaded right?

power up your heli and watch the lcd display on the ap2000i.

Ok, grab knob A and rotate it all the way to the left. This should turn your gain all the way off and show 0% on the ap2000i. If it says cal or done, then go into channel 5's ATV's and move up the low endpoint until it reads 0 (this is with knob A all the way to the left.)

Now get into program mode by pressing and holding the mode button, then press the mode button one more time to go into advanced program mode.

Scroll to the next page and choose PROG. MIX1
Press the up/down page until you see MIX, MAS,SLV,LINK, SW, POSI.

for mix, it is most likely on INH(inhibit) turn this to off.

For MAS, choose channel 5: GYRO
FOR SLV, choose channel 5:GYRO
Leave LINK OFF.

Pick a free switch for SW and the position you choose.

scroll down till you get back to page 1 and under RATE, choose +10% for H.

Now with the A knob still all the way to the left, the ap2000i should read 0%.

Pull your newly programed switch/mix and watch the ap2000i as you do it. It should say cal, then done. This will take about 1/2-1 second.

flip your switch back off now, now when you feed in knob A, you are calibrated.

Remember to calibrate, you must have your gain off to start with.

So turn off the gain , put the heli in the air, and when in a steady hover, flip your new cal switch for 1 second, then feed in your knob A to turn the ap2000i on.

Try it all out on the ground first and make sure it is doing what you expect it to do.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.