Discussion - Razor + 24-4 +12s 3850 TPs + CC 85= GREAT POWER

[misskimo]

Discussion - Razor + 24-4 + 12s 3850 TPs + CC 85= GREAT POWER
Ratio 11.4 to 1
recomended ? not proven yet , 10s is a proven setup

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hey , well I got the chance to fly probably the last flight of my season today before I head back to my remote job site ,
I flew it as hard as I could , Like staying in the collective a hole lot , like the long tictoc. swapping +11-11 as much as I could , just to see if I could shut it down , NOPE! it performed flawless , flew for 6 mins straight at 100% throttle , no gov , Gary said the gov wouldnt work on 12s , and also , I do recomend getting the Castle link and up loading a better softstart , its hard on the stock setting using the stick yes and no question , Im very happy , power was a tad more than my 45-06 setup on 12s , one thing to remember , during cold days a High voltage system , the batteries dont sag , useing voltage as a main power sorce instead of amps = great flight in cold condition. seen that with my 14s Ion last year flying in 16 F weather.


Tony

[skippy]

My first question would be how much does it weight and what size blades are you using?

[misskimo]

8 lbs , 600 mm VBlades
I also would like have tried the new 3400 TP for a good 5 min flight

[misskimo]

man , Razor by MA , ThunderPower 4400s 10s , ratio 9.6 actro 24-4 yesterday and this morning

theres nothing like getting to fly after a long winter , yesterday and today , man , it sure feels good , I also dropped down in cell count , still running 9.6 to 1 , wide open , and started doing more stunts that I learned on the sim this winter , snake was a blast , the funnel , well need to work on it , but on 10s it sure isnt like my 12s useing the same gearing , but Im not going to put 12s on it anymore with this gear ratio , I will up it to 11 for 12s and bump the head down to 88% where the actro hits best with out causeing other problems like tail blowing out , also today I slapped on a set of 620 Vblades , man what a difference in cyclic , faster, I also ran an old set of 4400 preproduction extreme packs from last year that I recieved from Charlie , great power , 6 min flight time of 3D and then another half a min of an auto
this afternoon , I charged the 10s 4400 up and also a set of 6s TP 3300
I been tinkering with a ratio Im not use to doing , like geared 9.6 to 1 on 12s , :shock: 100% max rpm is close to 2700 on the head , but running a 10s set of batteries 4 flights , I desided to try the 12s gov down to the same headspeed as my 10s which was wide open 2300 HS. man , you can feel the voltage on this thang , cyclic responce is DANG fast , punch outs are a blast , and its like ( put it where you want it) kinda action, sure was fun , still need to dial some interaction out of the gov , gov gain I suppose , it kicks at a hover about every 3 seconds , but once you add collective , its gone , and tictocs are so fast, flew it for 5 1/2 mins , and still had some spunk left , these were the same packs I let the UK fellows wring out at Las Vegas. they weigh about 5% less than a set of 5s 3700s or 5s 3850s , Im happy with it , :mrgreen:

[Clintstone]

Tony, I am running HV85 with gov. and it works flawless for me.

[misskimo]

hey Clint , the gov seams to work fine , full neg , full pos . loads up and pulls, but when at mid stick , the headspeed goes up a tad afterwards, so Im thinking the gov gain needs to rise up a few points , and then it acts like it hits alittle instant throttle at a hover . it had better action than the video I posted of vegas, which at vegas I was running pretty much wide open ,

[Clintstone]

Jon Jennings is running one and it is working great, you might try his settings.

[PG 378]

Interesting, the "kick" at hover is what we get. Does your headspeed vary slightly at the point of the kick?

[misskimo]

yes ! its at mid stick only , its like the gyro on the tail with the gain to high is what I think it is ,

[misskimo]

heres a video of some of that POWER yall
Alaska spring is here YEH! 07(30MB) (http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=Misskimo07&filename=Razor12S-24-4-TP-rocks-4-07.wmv)

[NTM]

Interesting, the "kick" at hover is what we get. Does your headspeed vary slightly at the point of the kick?


I've been having the same problem with two of my cc85hv's in my logo 14. The esc (in governor mode) just seems to burst to full throttle for a split second, now and then, on it's own, resulting in a bit of a kick at the tail.
I've tried different settings, software versions, setup methods, radio equipment, bec, batteries, motors, different helicopters, prayer, positive mental visualization etc. , all to no avail :arggg:
I'll have a kontronik jazz 55-10-32 in it tommorow, hopefully that does the trick.

I can't figure it out, I know other people have had decent luck with the cc85hv, but I've literally spent months going through the heli and eliminating every possible variable :dontknow
I want my damn time back :bomb:

[TomC]

NTM,

If the Jazz works fine, it might be a good idea to send both of your hv85's back to CC for inspection. They now have a revised board that addresses this 'throttle surging' problem. CC will replace the board, or more likely replace the esc with the latest one. Plan on a 3-4 week turnaround time though.

If your Jazz esc does the same thing, it may be due to belt static build-up in your boom. Ground the boom and you should be ok.

Cheers,

Tom C

[misskimo]

Tom , theres no ESD with these belts , rubber belts solve this problem, its a throttle problem ,
huh? well theres 3 people with the same thing , I will regear 2 weeks from now , when I get back from my remote job. 9.6 to maybe 10.4 . up the throttle % a tad ,

[misskimo]

hey , well I had my 3rd spring this year , winter , spring , winter, spring , we have about 10 of those till sping hits , I dont know where summer fits in , still cold,
Anyway , I put in 5 flights today , man I sure like this machine on 12S
I ran 3 flights with the 3300s and 2 flights with the 3850 long packs from ThunderPower.
The Razor likes the 3850s the best , seams like I get more tail kicks, out of the 3300s , its like 25C might not be enough kinda kicks, I been getting a constant 5 min flight time now with the 12s 3300s , my gearing now , which I changed today , which takes about 10 min, I went from a 9.6 to a 10.8 ratio , I like this one better, 9.6 was a tad to much on 12s with the 24-4. the gov was a tad low , to low , actual 100% headspeed was 2700, goved down to around 78 to 82 % of max HS , now with the 10.8 . I have a Max 100% HS of 2460 and goved down to 2210 , 90% of actual 100% headspeed, I like it , with the 12 3850s , I flew 2 flights alittle over 7 min,
one thing I real noticed , 10s actro 24-4 geared 10.3 , max HS was close to 2200 on this . its ok, cyclic was alot slower . 12s , just acts like you added a turbo to the system, YEH! with about the same HS on 12s as 10s :smokin: :smokin:

[r2160]

So, given what I read here, and given that I know diddly about electrics, are you saying the better way to go is to ignore govenor mode and just have 100% flat throttle curve?

setup is razor, neu 1515/2y, CC85, TP 3850, 600mm?
I am also considering changing to the hacker 14s at either 8.18 or 9.6?

thanks
Glenn

[misskimo]

hey , I like gov better , the head stays consistent. better watch those hackers , they like to heat up .
on your setup with the 1515 , I dont really know , never tried that yet. but with a 2 to a 4 pole motor , it seams best to run close to 100% 6 to 12 pole tend to like gov since they are spinning slower and gov can work better. the hacker has just a smuge more power than the 45-08, the 24-4 has more power than the 45-08 , and on 12s , it really runs great

Tony

[Willy J]

OK, so this may be a bit off this topic but I've been away for a while and just noticed the talk about the cc hv 85 ECS. Is everybody having the tail kicking problem?? I have tried everything to get rid of that annoying kick which sounds exactaly as described above. The Razor has been sitting most of the time since I can't seem to rid it of this problem. I have tried everything and it's still the same but after reading this post maybe they ALL do it. I think I'll take it out and send it back to CC for inspection. Has anyone sent theirs in and have it come back in better working order?

Bill W. Milan, IL

[misskimo]

hey , mine kicks and Ive just excepted it as it is , its the same , just a small small kick , and I noticed yesterday looking through the skytach , the kick is from the esc giving out quick burst of throttle , my headspeed wasnt staying the same , it doent bother it swapping collective, just in feathered pitch and does it about every 5 to 7 seconds,

Tony

[Clintstone]

I setup another ratio with my Ion and had the Kick which you guys are talking about. I run 3 speeds in Gov. mode and I noticed my kick was worse on the low HS and I lowered my gain and it got rid of my Kick. I also notice in the last software change the throttle response actually seems to work as a fine-tune for gov. gain. I start at low and then I tweak the gain and then after getting the best gain setting I start going up on throttle response. This is working for me but may not be the trick for you guys.