Suitable Heli for a Newbie

[FS_Pilot]

I am wanting to get started flying RC Heli's and don't know where to begin.
What is a good beginners Heli?
Should i go for petrol or Electric?
Pre-built or Kit?
Fixed or Variable pitch rotor?
I don't want to start with something too expensive as it is likely to get a few scratches or worse. I want to start slow and gradually work my way up.
My only heli experience is 1 hour Trial intro flight real Heli & Several years with Microsoft FS98, FS2002 & FS2004
Please I am open to any and all suggestions and comments.
Thanks FS_Pilot

[MicroMan]

Well Im not sure how much advice you want from another noob but one of the main reasons I settled on a T-Rex 450XL is because of its popularity, parts support and ease of putting it together. Have you spoke to someone at your local hobby shop yet that you can trust not to push whatever is on their sales list.

[FS_Pilot]

There are no model shops that deal in heli's for over 200 klms. The only one in the area is a guy from the local modellers club who has a raptor 50. He is the only one in the club that flies heli's. Even he purchased his heli online from overseas after doing all his research on the net. I am pretty much on my own doing most of my research on the net as well.
FS_Pilot

[Pinecone]

Read the threads here. But basically bigger flies more stable. Smaller costs less to buy. Cheaper may mean less worry over crashing, leading to faster learning.

People have learned on 50 nitro and on fixed pitch micro and everything in between.

[spork]

I have to 2nd the T-Rex 450.

Pros:
- Inexpensive to buy
- Parts and upgrades are cheap
- Parts and updrades are available EVERYWHERE
- The knowledgebase on this and other forums is HUGE (possibly more so than any other heli)
- It flies pretty darn well
- It's small and electric so your field options are MUCH broader
- No messy fuels and starters. Your field box can hold just a couple spare batteries, your transmitter, and some basic tools if you like.


Cons:
- It's true that bigger helis tend to be more stable - but I think you'll find the T-Rex can be setup quite nicely for learning on.
- It's electric, so batteries are relatively expensive (but can last a long time if treated properly).
- The batteries are Lithium-Polymer chemistry, so you'll need to learn how to treat them. Otherwise they can be quite dangerous.

Whatever you settle on, you should definitely get a machine with collective pitch. Not only can you do more with them, and grow into their capabilities, but they just plain fly better.

I'd also recommend getting a pretty nice transmitter. You will likely hold onto it for this and other helis to come. I find the Futaba 7CHP is a really great value for a fairly comprehensive computer radio.

Good luck.

[th0rg0d]

I have to finalize the vote here. I too am a noob, but have alot of sim time on fms with the trex. I can barely fly my picollo f/p, but have no trouble with the trex in hover and forward flight.
Basic 3d on sim is no problem, but I am having a hard time setting up my tail/gyro. I can "fly the tail", but it seriously inhibits my ability to fly 3d.
I choose the 7chp based on my lhs recommendation, it is very easy to program and the menus are straight forward.
If you want to save money but still get a great heli, invest in a rc simulator before getting your first heli. FS20xx is good, but rc heli's barely compare to the "scale" birds. Plus you need lots of familiarity with you Tx, not the keyboard and yoke.
Good luck, and remember, any pilot is glad to help you out! :D

[FS_Pilot]

Thank you all i will definity be checking out the T-Rex 450 Electric. I checked the following website and there are seveal version, which one would you recommend? http://www.toyhaus.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=rceheli
FS_Pilot

[spork]

Thank you all i will definity be checking out the T-Rex 450 Electric. I checked the following website and there are seveal version, which one would you recommend?

They all have their pros and cons. And they're all good. More importantly, all the parts are pretty much interchangable. So if you buy the basic bird and decide to upgrade you can pretty much buy the upgrade parts after each crash. Or you can start with the full-bling bird.

That said...

I like the CDE versions (they use eCCPM rather than mechanical mixing for the swashplate). eCCPM requires a radio that supports eCCPM (like the 7CHP or most computer radios these days). Some feel it's a bit trickier to setup initially, but most agree it gives you crisper control. If you're even reasonably technical, download the free Finless videos on setup, and ask questions on here, I guarantee you'll get it right.

Also, if you choose one with a motor, many like the Align 430L. You certainly wouldn't go far wrong with it.

I would hesitate to get one with an Align gyro. The gyro most everyone loves for this bird is the Futaba 401. You could also save a few bucks and get the Futaba 240.

I'm not crazy about the radios that come with any of those combos. I really like the Futaba 7CHP as a starting point. You could go even fancier, but you really won't need fancier for quite a while (if ever).

I'd go for the 35 amp ESC. The 25 amp will be too limiting in the long run.

People could debate the RX until the end of time. But I don't think I've ever heard complaints about the Futaba 146ip PCM RX. It's small, light, and quite impervious to RF noise.

Incidentally, I think there are shops that will put together the exact combo you request. I think ReadyHeli does this.

Finally, you could buy used. You have to be even more careful about what you're getting, but there are great deals out there if you know how to spot them, and have a little time on your hands.

[Pinecone]

Just remember, cheap is relative. :)

The Trex SE is not cheap on initial purchase, but has the upgrades you will want. Plus the metal parts tend to be more durable.

But anyway, from scratch, a Trex is going to push $1000 or so.

$200 for heli
$100 for motor and ESC (Align)
$100 for cyclic servos
$130 for gyro
$60 for digital tail servo
$200 - 300+ for radio, IMO better to sepnd more upfront and get better one
$40 - $70 per battery pack, and you will want several
$100 for good lipo charger

[FS_Pilot]

I have started to download Bob Whites finless videos from this site will be checking them out to get an idea what i will be in for. THere are that many different makes, models to choose from and i haven't even looked at radios yet.
FS_Pilot

[WayneBrown]

if you have someoone nearby that is flying a raptor 50, get the same brand.
Either a 30 or 50 will give you more run time, with the 30 being more economical.
The 50 airframe with a OS .37 and using 550mm blades instead of the supplied 600's will give you room to grow, swap engines and blades and move into 3D.
OS .37 should get you 15-20 minutes of hovering easily on a tankful, the electrics will only get you 7-10 minutes.
Fly what is familiar and known to your mentor, don't blindside him with something he needs to learn.

[FS_Pilot]

Would i be better off buying an RC simulator first before even concidering getting the real thing? What would be the best most realistic simulator to get? I have been playing around with FMS using an XBox 360 controller for windows but find it a bit basic.
FS_Pilot

[c0bra]

Sim sim sim! I think almost everyone will agree that you should get a sim, and IMO getting it first is a great idea. That's what I did, got G3 before anything else. Heck, I still don't really have anything else yet.

The new Phoenix sim (http://www.phoenix-sim.com) is getting really great reviews. Otherwise, check out the very popular Reflex XTR (http://www.reflex-sim.de) or RealFlight G3 (http://www.realflight.com/). If you don't want to buy a radio right away, G3 comes with a transmitter-shaped USB controller. G3.5 is now in beta, and the full version will be released shortly as a free upgrade to G3 owners. However, G3 takes a good computer system to run well. Reflex and Phoenix seem to need a lesser system, but then you will also need to buy a radio.

For more info, check out the threads in the R/C simulators section of the Freak. In the end, any sim is a good sim.

[WayneBrown]

my opinion differs from the rest here..
The sim will aid you in learning, if used in conjunction with real life experience. It is not intended to be a replacement.
Once you have the basic idea of what to expect, going out and doing it is more valuable than sitting on your butt on the sim.
There is a time once you are flying that you will need to go back to the sim to learn orientation in different aspects.

[Pinecone]

Nice thing about Phoenix is, people are selling XTR for great prices. :)

But Phoenix is very good.

[sparky]

Pinecone, Dont forget to mention a balancer in your lists! They are essintial! About 75 to a 100.00

[FS_Pilot]

These prices i presume are in US dollars so that will mean at least a 50% or more increase when converted to Australian Dollars. That is a lot of money, better get a lotto ticket.
FS_Pilot

[sparky]

How can you put a price on something that you enjoy? To me, IMO, if you dont enjoy something, then that is expensive! Why drive a nice car when a hundai will do? Why live in a nice house, when a trailer will do? :dontknow
Yes, there is cost in this hobby, but the rewards far outweigh the cost! :twisted:

[spork]

How can you put a price on something that you enjoy? :

Would you fly a T-Rex if it cost $4000.00 to buy and $500 per crash? Everyone puts a price on everything.

[sparky]

We know it does not cost that much, and it is worth it if you enjoy it, no matter how long you have to save to get it! IMO.

When I first started RC with plankers about 15 years ago, that was expensive and I had to save for months! It was agonizing! But I saved and never regretted it!

P.S. Its only about .75 cents US to 1 dollar Aussie.

[FS_Pilot]

The Trex 450 sounds like a very popular and parts are easily available is this a good starting point. Does the 450 come in different models and if so which is the best one to start off with? The next thing is the radio and i have found the Futaba popular at the local club. After doing a bit of research there are a few things to concider and from what i have noticed it seems that 7 channels is a good starting point when it comes to heli's. Do i go for Mode 1 or Mode 2? What is the difference? Or am i getting ahead of myself and start even smaller with a "Twister Bell 47 RTF Electric Indoor Micro helicopter" for example. I am even more confused now than when i started.
Thanks FS_Pilot

P.S Sparky, it is true that Its only about .75 cents US to 1 dollar Aussie. but in reality the prices in an aissie shop are about 50% more than in a US shop. why i don't know maybe it has something to do with freight & import costs. After all most of this stuff is manufactured in the US.

[MicroMan]

FS_Pilot heres a link to Aligns website below is a list of their 450 series helis. I have a T-REX 450XL (HDE).

http://alignrcusa.com/product/product_heli.htm

T-REX 450X(CDE)

T-REX 450SE(CDE) Kit/Black

T-REX 450SE(CDE) Kit/Silver

T-REX 450XL(CDE)CCPM

T-REX 450XL(HDE)

T-REX 450SA

[sparky]

For some reason that I do not totally understand, Align is cheaper here in Indonesia than in the states. Most Imports are more expensive. Maybe because Align is from Tiwan, and Indonesia has an agreement with Tiwan on imports.

If you read more forums here, you will see different inputs. Some recomend the 450 SE as it already has metal parts and more rugged. Others will say get a cheaper version and upgrade as you wreck and buy parts for repair.

I am still in the Micro Indoor heli and sim status, so i myself cannot recomend either. My Trex 600CF is at my suppliers already and just waiting for me to get home. I am still trying to get 1 of the best radieo's as I found out with planes, you will grow out of a low end radio fast! If you get for example a JR 9303, it will store 30 different models. Planes or heli's. From the info I have recieved from this site, it is user fiendly and has better curves, so when i do get good, I can set it exactly the way I want. but, that is me.

But like I previously stated, save and enjoy! That is after you get the wifes approval! lol!

[spork]

I personally find the Futaba 7CHP to be the best overall value. It's relatively inexpensive, and should hold you for a long long time. I think there's something to be said for going with a radio that local modelers are familiar with. No doubt, JR makes great radios too.

[kgfly]

FS_Pilot

Well you asked for opinions so here are mine (a fellow Aussie):

Electric or Nitro
==========
For me it's no contest. Electric is simpler, cleaner, quicker to prepare, pack away and maintain. Yes lipo flight batteries are expensive, but for the Trex and smaller helis, they are very reasonable these days. For an eHeli you are paying for your fuel up front, for a nitro, you do it by the litre. In a 50 size heli nitros are still probably 50% cheaper per flight minute, but the margin is falling rapidly. You do get longer flights and quicker "recharges" with nitro, but for most folk, particularly learners, 3 batteries of 7-10 minute flights is all your nerves can stand.

So I say electric without a doubt.

Prices in Australia
============
We have some great local and online suppliers in Australia with globally competitive prices for probably 75% of items. Certainly for anything TRex related. Got to http://archeli.com.au and check out the sponsors their, you will find once you take shipping and taxes into account you really cannot save much if anything buying from OS. Personally I recommend wattsuprc.com.au or http://microheliworkz.com.au/ for anything Trex (plus lots of other stuff). Don't buy radios from OS, you almost certainly won't get legal ones and most likely won't get a Aussie-spec charger.

What heli ?
=======
The Twister Bell 47G or Esky LamaV3 are a great way to start if you only want to dip your toe in the water and you have a suitable indoor site to fly (eg a double garage or similar). You can be flying out of the box for under AUD$200 and another $AUD50 of spares will keep you going for your first 3 to 6 months.

These little coax helis are the easiest to fly of any and are great for learning basic orientation and FF skils. Their manouverability is limited, but quite enough for trying out the R/C heli experience and still a lot of fun. Great value but if you find you like it, you will outgrow them and want something better.

IMO the something better is without doubt a TRex450SE. Since you are starting from scratch, this will cost you between AUD$1600 and $2000 for your first 6 months. There is a lot more to getting into an eHeli of this calibre than it appears at first. You need: heli, motor, esc, gyro, Tx, Rx, servos (x4), lipos (x3), charger/balancer, power supply, soldering iron, multimeter, the right tools, some glues/tapes/velcro/lubricants/cable ties etc and of course spare parts and a simulator.

If you can afford a bit more again, say AUD$2500 for your first six months then a QJ-EPv2 is slightly larger than a TRex and has a dedicated and enthusiastic following in Australia. It has a reputation for being more stable (naturally, it's bigger, 400mm blades instead of 325mm) and easier to learn on, but still capable of everything from mild to wild. The extra cost comes mostly from needing bigger servos and batteries and more expensive parts. There is only one supplier in Oz (totalerc.com.au) but they have a great reputation for service and support.

Radio
====
Absolutely no question in my mind. For anyone entering the R/C hobby today without a sunk investment in legacy gear it would be crazy to go with anything other than the new 2.4 GHz spread spectrum solutions. They have lots of advantages and the just released DX7 (available next week in Oz from modelflight.com.au) is an absolute winner. A far better choice IMO than a 7CHP. Ideally you would get the AR6000 Rx for a TRex as the AR7000 might be slightly inconvenient to mount. Save the AR7000 Rx for your EP8 or T600 down the track.

If you want a high-end radio (although IMO you really don't need to spend the extra $500 over a DX7) the get a JR9xII (Tx+bat+charger only) and a set of these as soon as they come out (in a month or so): http://www.xtremepowersystems.net
Recent surveys here on helifreak as well as some hard data on rcgroups.com show that the JR9xII (9303 in USA) edges out the Futaba 9CHP(S) on usability and performance.

Sim
===
I have FMS, ClearView, ReflexXTR (just sold) and Phoenix (just bought, still on its way). I think a sim is an essential learning tool that will save you money without doubt. Right now I think Phoenix is great value at ~$200. G3 has the advantages of including a controller and the option of online play. However it is *much* more expensive, charges for most upgrades and new models/flying fields and needs a high end computer and graphics card for reasonable results.

################################

So the bottom line:

For AUD$250 or less - Get Esky LamaV3 from wattsuprc.com.au

For AUD$2000 or less - get TRexSE + DX7 + AR6000 + 3 x HS65MG + GY401 + F9250 + Phoenix + (eStationBC5 + Jaycar 13.8V/18A pwr supply) OR Swallow advance 2 AC/DC + balancer)

For AUD$2500 or less - get QJ-EPv2 + DX7 + GY401 + ?tail servo? + Phoenix + 6S-capable charger/balancer

And be sure to join our local Aussi heli forum for lots of local help: http://www.archeli.com.au/