Has anybody seen this? 140degree swash for the Extreme...

[ChrisLaFollette]

Just saw it over on RR.

http://www.miniatureaircraftusa.com/store/proddetail.asp?prod=0217-5

[Zilly]

Yeah I just saw that too are there any disadvantages of going to 140 CCPM or is it all good, cause if it is I'll have it :wink:

z

[ChrisLaFollette]

I think its better, but why..., im not 100% sure.

[z11355]

I believe it forces all 3 servos to move an equal amount whereas in 120 CCPM, the
side servos only move 1/2 as much as the front/rear one

[bexusflexus]

I think its better, but why..., im not 100% sure.

Supposedly less CCPM interaction w/the 140deg setup. However, there are only a couple of radios as of now that can handle this. JR Vibe has 140 deg swash.

[ChrisLaFollette]

The elevator servo on the extreme moves more when giving a fore/aft cyclic command because the elevator ball is positioned out further from the center of the mainshaft than the aileron and pitch servos. 140 is supposed to eliminate the lag or something. I spent some time a while back looking at my fury figuring out how I could convert it to 140 and what I had in mind is pretty close to what MA made. I hope ill get to see the parts this weekend at the IRCHA SE funfly. Might even pick up a set. :)

[DavidH]

However, there are only a couple of radios as of now that can handle this. JR Vibe has 140 deg swash

Don't know why you think that. Any radio that will do 120 deg CCPM will do 140 deg CCPM if it has programmable mixes.

The JR 10X, Futaba 12Z and 14MZ have pre programmed 140 deg CCPM included.

But the setup below will do 140 deg CCPM with any radio that will handle 120 deg CCPM and has one free programmable mix.

In order to accommodate a 140 CCPM setup with the 9Z requires the use of one program mix. The program mix that is necessary is elevator as Master to pitch as Slave. With my Caliber it requires -35% down linear mix and -33 up linear mix. The only other change is in the SWH menu. The elevator rate will need to be increased to approximately 70 to give the same control input as the standard 120 CCPM using a rate of 50. With these changes the Futaba will fly 140 CCPM perfectly. That is the setup I flew at the NATS with the Caliber. Using the 140 CCPM gives a more precise feel to the elevator inputs but does not change the collective or aileron feel.


David

[ChrisLaFollette]

David what would you benefit by going from 120 to 140, aside from a more precise feel on the elevator inputs.

[Laurens]

The manual of the Minicopter Acrobat shows the difference between 120 and 140 degrees.

Basically the distance between mainshaft and balls are 1:1 on 140 degrees, and 2:1 on 120 degrees swash.

[Xtreme*76]

The manual of the Minicopter Acrobat shows the difference between 120 and 140 degrees.

Basically the distance between mainshaft and balls are 1:1 on 140 degrees, and 2:1 on 120 degrees swash.

Excuse me, what does it means in terms of interactions?
Could you tell me if this upgrade to 140 exist also for the tempest frames?
Thank you very much
Best regards
Giuseppe

[Laurens]

A 1:1 layout (140 degrees) makes the rear servo's use the same travel distance as the front servo.

[Dr.Ben]

The setup posted by David appears on the Futaba website for all who may be interested. Dwight Shilling wrote the guide to that.

The main issues with 120D eCCPM come into play with rapid elevator inputs. Because the length of the elevator tie to the swash is a different length than the two ail/pit links, you can get into some swashplate "dancing" due to the fact the elevator servo has the same speed as the other two servos but has to travel a different distance than the pit/roll servos do for a given ele input. The 12Z and 14MZ have software in them to tweak this speed disparity for whatever you happen to use as a baseline for such rapid elevator inputs. IE, you move the stick at what you would think is the fastest you'll need to for an ele command, and then adjust the SPEED COMPENSATION until the swash pivot cleanly about its uniball. It works pretty well. For the purist, 140d eCCPM is a superior system that helps avoid control geometry interactions before you ever get into the other causes of interactions (servo mismatch, differential travel, etc).

The MA system adds a few pieces to the stock swash. I know that when Cliff Hiatt first tested it, all that was needed beyond that, at least on a Tempest, was to flip the ail and pit servos around in the tray and tweak the rod length a little bit.

NOTE to all MZ users: If you have a model trimmed out for 120D eCCPM and want to try 140D, be aware that you'll need to MANUALLY copy all the parameters over into the 140D program. When you go from 120 to 140D eCCPM configuration, the radio resits all other program data. Futaba will lilkely address this annoyance in a later software upgrade.

Ben Minor

[Zilly]

Is the version MA show on their website for the Stratus as well or is their going to be a special Stratus version Dr Ben?

z

[Dr.Ben]

It's a little tougher on a Stratus.

The Stratus ties the two pit/roll bellcrank mounts together with a common threaded spacer which goes between the two frames just aft of the mainshaft. With this spacer, little frame material is in this area for stiffness, since the spacer gives the needed rigidity. If you move the bellcranks forward as is needed for 140D eCCPM, that spacer will have to go; it'll be in the mainshaft. I'd have to look at the conversion's carbon pieces to see if they provide the needed bellcrank support in the absence of the spacer and without the extra frame material present in the Extreme frames in this area.

Ben Minor

[Zilly]

Is there a conversion for the Stratus in the pipeline?

z

[bexusflexus]

BexusFlexus wrote: However, there are only a couple of radios as of now that can handle this. JR Vibe has 140 deg swash

DavidH wrote: Don't know why you think that. Any radio that will do 120 deg CCPM will do 140 deg CCPM if it has programmable mixes.

The JR 10X, Futaba 12Z and 14MZ have pre programmed 140 deg CCPM included.

But the setup below will do 140 deg CCPM with any radio that will handle 120 deg CCPM and has one free programmable mix.

Quite right David. I was only alluding to the fact that there are only a couple of radios with native programming to handle the 140deg geometry. You could indeed use up one of your programmable mixes to accomplish this, as you mention, if you were not already using them for other functions. I could have been more precise.

[Zilly]

The Stratus version is going to be out sometime in November.

z

[Dr.Ben]

All,

Correct. There WILL be a Stratus 140D conversion in the near future. As I suspected, a different carbon side plate needs to be made to create sufficient rigidity for the pit/roll bellcranks.

Ben Minor

[Xtreme*76]

Excuse me for all this doubts
but could you tell me please what this conversion kit will contains?
How will be possible to hole the normal frames to positionig correctly
the aileron pivots?
Thank you very much and regards
Giuseppe

[DavidH]

You can see it on the Extreme below.
http://www.miniatureaircraftusa.com/store/proddetail.asp?prod=0217-5

Scroll down the main page and you can see a picture of the parts laid out in a thumbnail picture.
http://www.miniatureaircraftusa.com/

The plates that bolt on will show the position of the new mounting point.

David