Stretched Razor Video in our video forum.. Check it out!!

[WillJames]

Check the video forum for stretched Razor 700 (90) video fromt eh SE Event!! yea Baby!! (http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=23163)

[epc2]

Nice !! Very Impressive I'll like to go that way from the beggining.

Hello Razor , Good Bye Ion X :mrgreen:

epc2.

[WillJames]

I don't think my Razor will replace my Ion-X. Completely different animals, I will most likely keep my Razor a 50, but as you can see from the videos the stretched Razor is a MONSTER.

[OICU812]

:shock: Oh my....

[buster1]

They are using the Hacker motor in that setup right? Which one? Also, what flight times are they getting with that motor, packs in the stretched version, with that flying style.
Thanks,
Jeff

[OICU812]

The motor as stated in video is an Actro, 32-3, looks like 4-5.5 minute range somewhere..

[EricLarson]

Mine was running a Neu 1521.

[OICU812]

1521, you don't say...hmmmm interesting, that looked to be a good setup as well Eric, and I would think it is safe to say that was a different style from your norm, it was kinda cool.

[skywalkertje]

Now that the razor 600 is out, when can we expect the 700? Will it be available as an upgrade only, or as a 700 kit as-well?

I still have one nitro bird (Raptor 90) which I want to replace with an electric next year. I only want electric helicopters in 2007, already have a Trex450 and Trex600.

[EricLarson]

It is coming, no ETA announced though.

[PDC]

WOW, that´s impressive, maybe I will wait a little with buying the Ion-x number two if this will be on the market this spring, and there maybe/maybe not also will be an Ion-X II out next season based more or less on the Razor.

Only thing is that I prefer torque tube for the tail on the bigger heli´s.

How does this beast feels in the air compared to the Ion-X handling wise? Apart from the better weight/power ratio, which is important, is this overall a superior 3D machine compared to the Ion-X?

[EricLarson]

The Ion is a very solid heli with a good track record. The Razor airframe right now is showing several improvements though. Placement and protection for the batteries, crash toughness, power to weight, ease of maintenance, and control geometry are improved.

The design goal is the same as the 600mm disk Razor. Bulletproof usage with very minimal maintenance, no user mods required cosing your $ and time, and excellent flight character.

The larger heli will more than likely be offered with a tube drive. Belts work well for cost savings and ease of use, but they do not replace to tube drive.

The larger disk Razor is very impressive in the air. It has a distinct presence as the power it is pushing is very apparent. This machine is not meant to just be another "E" machine with ok performance to fly with your nitro. My personal goals are to beat nitro power by 15% or more, retain similar flight times, fly for less cost per flight, and minimize any maintenance required.

Release of the 600mm Razor has been keeping the shop busy for a bit, but the 700mm version will be coming. It is hard to set a date though.

[buster1]

Eric, what motors are you testing in the stretched - is it still the Hacker and Neu's?

[EricLarson]

Not a lot at this point. I have a 32-3 Actro and a Neu 1521. Just like when we started the 600mm Razor project the trick is to limit variables and one way is to use a very proven power system. Both the Actro and Neu have good track records and I have used them both enough to have a good feel for how they behave. It is just easier to figure out things along the way when there are any issues to solve.

I am running them on 12S though. I could not the flight times I desired at the power level running 10S with a 710 blade. 12S is allowing me to get longer flight times and very constant power. With the Neu in fact I done see any head speed loss until under 80% use of the packs.

[eheliflyer]

Eric have you tried the Neu 1521 on the Razor 600?

[buster1]

eric, I am putting in the Hacker in the 600 - do you think it will translate well over to the 700 - per your reply, you are not testing it in the 700 - ??

[Tom Fiddler]

Very Nice Machine!
And as always incredible flying talent.

[EricLarson]

Thanks for the comments Tom.

The A50 Hacker will be too small for the 700mm disk. At least IMO. Hacker USA said they would get me an A60 designed for our use but they have not yet been able to get the prototypes out.

In reality a lot of motors will work, it just depends on the power output you are looking for. Peaks on the A50 in the 600mm machine are up around 2500 watts and average probably 1500 watts or so. With the 700 disk we will see peaks up to 4000 watts and 2000 average. It really depends a LOT on flying style, gearing, and just want you want out of the machine.

I am really not saying any of the motors mentioned are better than any other. There is ton's of great equipment out there. It is more of what works for your specific needs. It is a different world than nitro. It is pretty easy to dial in more power with electric, the trick is to do it with that balance of clean power and flight time.

[EricLarson]

Ah also I should mention that the video was of 10S battery setups when we where first just learning a lot of stuff. The power we are seeing now is stronger and much more consistent. A lot of electric machines I have flown in the past few years have had power, but never that crisp feel of nitro. I can not say I have found that "snap" and collective pops, walls, and tic tocing maneuvers are every bit as strong as nitro without any rotor over-speed.

[PDC]

Thanks for the reply Eric, sounds like this will be two awesome machines. Yeahhh and great flying from both of you too.

Sounds interesting if there will be a 600 and 700 version with many common components. Would make life easier :) .

Eric! do you have a lot of flights with the NEU on 12S? As I had some issues with this motor in my heavy Ion-X 12S setup with the problematic 60T gears. Not sure exactly how much the 60T setup and the extra weight had to say in that respect, or if I was just unlucky with some of the first versions of this motor, or if the BIG Schulze was some of the reason as well.

That said, I have no problems with the NEU on 10S so far, strong power and like the motor. Great support on these motors as well when I was unlycky.

[EricLarson]

The only issue is that we are limited in gear ratio and need to make a change to accommodate 12S with high KV motors. The belt drive seems to handle the power pretty well. There is a lot of power to transfer though.

Weight with 4350 12S is 10.2 lbs...

[PDC]

Thanks! Sounds good if you can get the 12S NEU 1521 setup to work in this heli. The power from a 12S NEU 1521 setup is brutal, and I can imagine the performance will be absolutely ballistic in a lightweight heli like this.

[OICU812]

That will be the ticket imho, 12S on the Razor, yeah! :woohoo

[EricLarson]

Yes power is brutal, but you can also back it off a bit and get nice flight times. Flight time has always been my complaint. I can make power, but the flight times are too short. With the batteries we have today and the current limitations of the equipment, 12S just seems to work better for me.

Anyways it is all good. Ton's of ways to set this stuff up and it all just depends on personal likes and dislikes.

The Neu on 12S also is just sick consistent. It runs clean at the same RPM though 80% of the pack. On the 110HV it just spins right along.

[misskimo]

12s is great , on the 600 , useing the 45-06 with a set of TP 3850s sure rock the house , temps just like the 45-08 but about 15 to 20 % more grunt , 5 min of hard as you can , then another min of taking it easy with a few autos , YEH! and then if you want a real long flight with the same 12s setup , slap in 2 5s 4600s and open wide open for some low headspeed mild 3D flips and rols , kinda heavy tictoc, looking at 10 min flight times there ,
Eric , slap in 10s on your 12s machine, same gearing , maybe take out a bit of pitch too, give it 100% throttle , and have a nice mild German style flying , Real smooth smack though. I bet you can get 9 mins on that bird , Yeh I know its not your style , but its fun, if people wanna try it , best way to tone it down is by motor RPMs . :lol:
What gear ratio you running with the 1521 on 12s ?