My Swift Flies!!!

[frankos72]

I couldn't think of any reason to not fly it so I took it out in the front yard today for a test spinup. I got it light on the skids and all seemed fine so I went on up. :D I hovered around a bit and trimmed the cyclic just a tad. I can't wait to get my HS checked and get it flying right cause I can tell this is going to be fun to fly.

I have one issue that I'm not quite sure what to do about. The heli keeps wanting to turn right (tail going left). I'm not sure if this is in the gryo, radio or setup so I thought I'd ask 1st. I had two different % settings in my controller for the gryo 80% and 50% both HH so I tried them out. I also have non HH in there but I didn't try it.

I've got the swift 16, with 600+, 45HV, Hitec Rx, and Futab 401 with 9254 on tail.

Any help with the turning would be great.

Thanks Bob for the build videos. And Thanks to everyone else who visits here for helping me to find the answers to any question I could think of while buying and building this heli. :lol:

[AV8TOR]

If the tail is drifting like that it sounds like you are not in heading hold mode and the tail is slightly out of trim. Is the red light on steady on your gyro when you flew or flashing?
It needs to be initialized with the gyro switch in the heading hold mode or it will never go into HH.

You are really going to enjoy the Swift. A very nice flying heli.

[frankos72]

Yes, the light was on solid. and there was enough wind that it would have been weathervaning had it not been in HH mode(10-15mph) Because of where I was stading and I was keeping the nose out... The tail was actually turning into the wind instead of going with it.

It seems like I read in the 401 manual about initializing the 401 for the 1st time?? But I don't guess I understood what your supposed to do. I thought that was primarliy for non HH mode anyway??

[AV8TOR]

Yes the factory manual is hard to understand the first time. Here is a nicely presented version, read it over and see if it helps any. http://www.coloradorotorheads.com/articles/401.htm

[frankos72]

I haven't read it yet, but it looks like a great site! Thanks AV8TOR!

[frankos72]

OMG, I had revo mixing on. DUH!!! I know to turn it off, but I had reset that heli in the computer before starting so I never even looked. I just Assumed that it would be off!

anyway, Thanks again I think that that site will be nice so I can really understand my 401.

[c0bra]

Congrats on the flight! Sounds like a nice setup. What kind of battery power and cyclic servos are you using?

[AV8TOR]

Great frankos now on to the fun.

[Finless]

Great to hear Frankos!
This weekend I took out the cheapo 3004 standard servos and put in 9252's. WOW what a difference.... I am really enjoying this heli and it's still STOCK!
I need to go now pick up some of the upgrades.

BTW I also tried it on 5S 3700 packs Saturday. Flys good on 5S and you could "feel' is was lighter. While you could tell the 6S had more power for sure 5S is also a good setup and I think I like the lighter feel of the heli too. I plan to play around more with this.

Bob

[frankos72]

Cobra,
Cyclic is futaba 3004's. Batts are emoli 7s. I think I may drop it to 6s before I get to idle up 1.

Flew it again about 1 hr ago and got it trimmed pretty good. I had to drop the 401 gyro gain down to 30% HH to keep it from hunting(only did it twice but it was a bit freaky the 1st time).

Near the end of the flight it acted like it had a big glitch.... motor stopped for a split second and the tail twisted about 1/8 turn. I landed. I hope it was just alow batt and not a glitch. My 7s emoli registered 27.1 under no load when I got i back inside. I'll charge later and see how many mah I took out of it.

How many Volts should it read when it's low??

[AV8TOR]

Frankos double check and make sure your gyro is in digital mode. 30% seems real low.

[frankos72]

Okay, what is the definition of "hunting?" With the higher gain settings, the tail would occasionally twitch real fast to the right about 01-12 inches and then hold. Maybe that's a glitch of some sort I just thought it was hunting since I've never seen or encountered hunting before.

[Tarkers]

Hey Frankos,
I reported the exact same "glitch" here:

http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=21578

Its a real cheek clencher, eh!?!

I've swapped my Rx out (PCM/PPM) which gives a me more confidence, however on a flight yesterday, I got the same "Glitch".
It was suggested the tail wag is a direct result of the power loss to the main rotors.
It was also suggested it may be the ESC voltage cut out, I've ordered a Low Volt alarm from Pete (Efliernz on here) which will go on this weekend, this may clear the glitch, but it sounds as if you've already thought of that by checking the draw on the emolis (I'm using LiPos, but suffering the same glitch).

I'm afraid I can't offer much more than that, except the comfort that you're not on your own!!
I'll be interested to hear if you find a cure or if you need a second opinion of a fix, I'd be happy to try it out on mine.

Cheers
Tarkers

[Finless]

Honestly.... if you were having a motor cut I think you would know it and hear it.... That is something that is not hard to feel and know as a problem!

Bob

[Tarkers]

Finless,
I personally think it could be a motor cut problem, even if its a only a momentry one, though I'm afraid I'm not experienced enough to know what one "should" feel like. Where would I start in trying to analyse/pin down the root cause?

There is a distinct drop in engine note that accompanies the drop in altitude, when the motor picks back up - thats when I get the tail wag which settles after maybe a second or two.

The drop in altitude is around 1-2ft and is quite abrupt.

Frankos,
Does this sound like what you're experincing too?

If it was radio interference, wouldn't the reaction of the heli would be different each time? It seems to be a very similar "glitch" response each time.

Tarkers

[frankos72]

Actually I didn't expierience any drop with the 1st two jumps of the tail, just the tail jumped right about 12" then stopped.

The 3rd time, the motor did noticably cut out although it was just for a split second. This time the tail wag came as the power came back and that would make sense now that I'm thinking about it that way. The torque probably caused that 3rd wag. I'm not sure if it dropped much but I was too busy just worring about something worse happening.

I charge the emoli pack and only put back 1.9 Amps. So I'm thinking that's not the problem. I did set a 5 minute timer on my throttle and I'll try that and see if stopping at 5 min doesn't help. (On the flight in question I was up and down for several short hovers as I was trimming the cyclic and adjusting the collective curves).

I know another guy that has a deans antenna on a swift with a similar setup and he said it eliminated almost all of his glitches except when the antenna is pointed directly at him. Yesterday when I had these problems I was flying with the nose pointed directly away from me. My antenna goes up the left boom support and back down the right so maybe I was expieriencing the same problem. Where on my 1st flight I was fighting the tail the whole time so I'm sure I didn't keep it pointed directly towards me nearly as well as on the 2nd flight. I plan to expierment with flying at about a 15-20 degree angle versus straight 90 nose out and see if that helps too.

I should get in at least one if not two flights today. I'll report back later and let you know how it goes.

[NTM]

Do you have the current limiting disabled in the esc ?
Low cell counts pull alot of amperage.

[frankos72]

The ESC is all default.... I'm reading this to mean that the current limiting is "standard" There is a Option 4: Insensitive and option 5: Disabled.... See below for more on this....

I did try putting it in low gov mode but it didn't act right at all.... IE, spun up real slow and would start and stop (slowly) at zero throtle. I put the gov option back into what the manual calls "auto calibrating throtle - for general aircraft use" and it's acting normal again. I may try High gov later but for now I wanted to fix the existing problems.

I found the 1st cause of glitch.... a cable tie had slipped a bit and was rubbing on the main gear. This made for a real fun glitch right after my 1st take-off just now.

After fixing that it hovered really well both tail directly at me and tail to an angle. till my throttle timer read 2:30 then it died at about 10 ft in the air. I landed no problem (no choice) and now I'm stuck wondering what that is about???

I see two options here. One is what NTM has mentioned and the current limiter is shutting down the heli or the other option is the cutoff voltage is kicking in.

The main batt is only down to 28.1 V. The ESC is in auto-lipo detect mode and I wonder if it thinks I have less cells in series than I do? There is not an option for 7s, so I had to leave it in auto. (I'm about to take out a cell to eliminate this posibility)

I could also be the current limiter. I can turn this off, but I sure don't want to burn up a 135$ ESC, what should I do?

[frankos72]

Okay, took it down to a 6s emoli. Set the ESC to know that there is 6s and that puts cutoff voltage at 18.0.

Glitches seem to be gone but the shutoff is still happening. I just flew it for about 2 or 3 minutes. The ESC, Motor, and Batt are all just warm to the touch. However it cut off 3 times. The motor would just shut off but as soon as it lands, I can bring down the trotle and bring it right back up and it will fly again.

It's got to be either the Current Limiting, or maybe it's getting such a small glitch that the ESC thinks the signal is messed up and shuts off???

HELP!!! :arggg:

I'd like to turn off the current limiting but I'm really affraid to burn up the esc. Is it even possible with 6s emoli and 600+ to pull enough watts to burn up the CC45HV? I don't quite know enough about this stuff yet to do the math on my own.

As for the other option the manual has an incomplet sentence. It says, "Auto shut down when signal is lost or radio interference becomes" Uh, becomes what??? Doesn't say. Anyway I figure this is one of the possible causes.

[Finless]

Didnt you go to a PCM RX?

If so I have a test for you to see if it is radio hits and quick lockouts.
What did you set your failsafe to for throttle?

Bob

[frankos72]

NO PCM Yet... I'm on a budget so I used a FM Hitec from a plank I'm not flying now....

I flew yet again and I have more info.... After reading about this on CC websiite I found out it comes specifically when I give it too much up collective too fast. I can ram it up on the ground(once it's light on the skids) and it will hop about 6" and fall right back down with the motor off.

A buddy of mine mentioned disconnecting the + wire(red) from the CC45HV to the Rx and I seem to remember something about that in some threads I've read. Will that help? I'm bout out of light so I'm done for the day, but I'll take all the info I can get so I can get back at it tomorrow.

I'm gonna borrow a USB connector tomorrow too so I can update the firmware on the ESC. He said that could help too.

[Finless]

OK well maybne you are getting a glitch to the throttle channel which is very common with PPM receivers.


A buddy of mine mentioned disconnecting the + wire(red) from the CC45HV to the Rx and I seem to remember something about that in some threads I've read.


Are you running a separate battery to power the RX? If so then by all means YES take out the red wire coming from the ESC to the RX as it is not needed (e.g. the BEC is not needed). If you are not running a separate RX battery then if you remove the red wire your RX wont get power!! The ESC has a BEC in it to power the RX and servos. So if this is the case then it does sound like it might be a glitch.
1) Do you have a ferite ring on the ESC line? If not add one!
2) Clean up the wiring if needed. Keep sero and RX wires as far from the motor and ESC as possible.

Bob

[frankos72]

Bob,

As I understand it the CC45HV doesn't have a BEC. At least the manual says so. At the same time, the red wire is soldered to the pcb so...??? I'll disconnect it anyway as I do have a seperat Rx Batt.

No ferite ring, I've read of them, which line does it go on? I assume the one between the Rx and the ESC?

I've got all the motor/esc wireing on the right side of the heli and all the servo wires (including the one from esc to rx) on the left. The Rx and ESC are about 4 to 5" apart.

[Finless]

Yes the ring goes between the ESC and RX and you want a minimum of 3 winds of the ESC leed through the ring. 5 winds is optimal. Also I prefer the ring to be closer to the ESC but many say it should be near closer to the RX.

Bob

[frankos72]

I found this advice for a similar problem over at RR. Does this sound like good advice??

1. For helicopters always set the cutoff voltage to the lowest possible setting and time the flights to use about 75-80% of the batteries capacity.
2. Set the current limiting to Insensitive
3. Set the Soft Cutoff

That should get you flying.