New Askman 360 Pan-LG mount for the Logo 10...

[askman]

I've been wrong a lots of times, that is why I have people preview and test it, and update the design as I learn more.

the raptor version is very similiar, but beefed up. not much taller. will feature the friction clutch but with belt drive for extra servo protection and possibly high torque MG servo that has been modded. if you got the lower frame kit for the etitan kit, it will work with it as part of the frame. the wide angle panorama setup will really work well for the e-titan.

[MLaBoyteaux]

Let me get on the soapbox here.

When I see numbers like that I worry about safety.
For a Logo 10, or E-Raptor, or any other converted 3d heli that is being used in an industrial/commercial application such as AP,
Let us ask the following questions:

1-At what gross takeoff weight will :
(a) a structural failure occur ?
(b) the helis handling/manueverability become so marginal as to make safe operation impossible ?

2- Given the establishment of the max weight for question 1, what percentage of that weight are we operating at ?

Before all the conjecture starts flowing, lets deal with actual TESTED data.
Who can say it will be fine or not without such testing. We are dealing with a machine orginally designed to be flown in a controlled environment as a 3d heli.
Id like to see a statement from Logo or Thunder tiger that they even approve of any AP use of their helis, even at stock weight. We take our chances with them as is. Doesnt mean they wont perform well, but at waht point is too much, too much ?.

I have done my own testing on a 600 blade/6mm spindle heli and found the spindle can bend from flight loads at a gross weight of 12 lbs.


Greg


Greg,

Who manufactured the heli you're refering to in these posts http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?p=161040&highlight=#161040 where you've flown it at 18lb and are looking at an AUW of 22 lbs? I'm assuming you're refering to a Joker, but the photo you posted doesn't really look like a joker. Is it your own design?

What would you consider to be a safe AUW for a Logo or a E-Raptor?

[GJestico]

Thats my own design. There are a few production parts from the Century Predator like the flybar carrier, tail rotor assy etc, but the head block and blade grips are of my own manufacture.
I am hesitant to say what a safe gross weight for a raptor/logo would be. I have not tested any components to failure beyond the 6mm spindle bending at a 12lb limit I mentioned earlier.
Trained profeesionals. closed course. do not try this at home !. :twisted:

[MLaBoyteaux]

Was the 6mm spindle a Raptor component? Did it bend just trying to lift a 12lb load? My interest is becuase my Raptor is currently flying at 14lb 4oz, 1.75lbs heavier than DJ's.

I know the Raptor spindle's are succeptible to bending during a hard landing, I've bent them myself, but I have a hard time believing you'll bend one flying AP maneuvers at 12lbs gross.

If you figure an 8lb Raptor flying 3D is capable of pulling 10g's, that's 80lbs of lift across the disc. That would equal over 5.5 g's on a 14 lb bird. I would be surprised if my normal style of AP flying exceeded 3 g's, and it's more likely in the 2g range.

[Dakine]

I witnessed a good test today, Gary's Logo 10 and Askman's 360° mount.

Gary, thanks for tricking me :twisted:

:mrgreen:

[dreslism]

I witnessed a good test today, Gary's Logo 10 and Askman's 360° mount.

Gary, thanks for tricking me :twisted:

:mrgreen:

Cool, so how many did you buy Tony?? :D

Trick me too, I want to see it in action.

[AZ ChopperCam]

umm..... Tony what the f*** are you doing here?! you rarely post over here in these parts.

[Dakine]

:hug:

Gotta make it a habit to come here now :)

[GJestico]

Dont want to pollute this thread anymore so I've started a new one:
http://www.helifreak.com/posting.php?mode=newtopic&f=83


To answer Marks questions.

[Dakine]

BTW, that Askman 360° mount was pretty cool with the Logo 10. I was flying while Gary was rotating 360° and shooting away.

Let's just say the first flight ended up with no tail control, nose in, throttle hold and baby auto :roll: Thanks for the heads up Gary :roll:

:mrgreen:

[GGoodrum]

It flies! Yep, Tony and I gave this thing a real workout today.
The mount worked flawlessly. Since this was both a test of the flying characteristics, getting the cal function tested and a test of the mount operation itself, I split the camera stuff off to a separate transmitter that I controlled, and I let Tony handle flying the heli. I didn't tell him until after we had everything dialed in that this was the first time all this had been flown. :D I figured he'd be a bit too cautious if he knew. lol. :D:D At first it was a bit dicey, as I inadvertently had the gyro gain set to 100%. After dialing it down to about 40% (using the AP-2000i...), things settled down. :) One thing I hadn't counted on was that as you spin up, the tail swings around. We ended up just letting it swing one full revolution. By that time the h/s was up high enough to lift off.

The power issue is a non-issue. This had plenty of reserve and had no problem lifting the 9-1/2 pound AUW at all. We got a good 7-1/2 minutes from the 10-cell a123-M1 pack. It lost power quickly, though, and Tony had his "baby auto", but it was a nice smooth landing. :)

We finally got the AP-2000i cal dialed in. The Santa Ana winds, that have driven up the temps here to summer levels (it hit 100F here today...), finally tapered off this afternoon, so we got a good test of the holding capability of the AP-2000i. It did very well. I did notice the altitude crept up a bit, so we still need the altitude hold feature (you listening Angelos?? :D), but I was very impressed on how well it held, even with the mount rotating underneath the heli.

I had a switch programmed to turn the mount at a 36 degree/second rate and set the camera to take 10 shots, which it does at a one per second rate. I took several series of shots, which I will try and stitch together.

All-in-all, it was a good day, "tricks" and all... :lol:

-- Gary

[AZ ChopperCam]

sounds like more "treats" than tricks. good news and it's too bad it was just a baby auto cause I would give anything to see Tony with a wet spot between his legs.





hmmm.... that didn't sound very heterosexual did it :mrgreen: :arggg: :roll:

[Dakine]

hmmm.... that didn't sound very heterosexual did it


Shhh, thee J, don't thell.....

:lol:

[WillJames]

Quote:

hmmm.... that didn't sound very heterosexual did it



Shhh, thee J, don't thell.....





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Glad to hear it is flying good Gary, can't wait to see the panos!! :smokin:

[Tonystott]

SNIPIt took me awhile to figure out how to do the radio programming. I have an 8-channel PCM receiver in the heli and a 9-channel one on the mount. This seems backwards, and I certainly didn't start out this way. The problem is that I needed 10 channels (6 for the heli, 1 for the AP-2000i and 3 for the mount...). The first thing I did was move the gyro gain to CH 4 in the AP-2000i, and used the freed up channel for the AP-2000i. That got the requirement down to 9 but the 9th channel on a DP149 is just for a switch, so it's not proportional. Of all the required channels, the camera trigger can be a simple on/off action, so that's why the 149 ended up on the mount.

I have the pan function assigned to a slider, which actually controls the turn rate for one of these continuous turn robot servos. I also programmed a mix to a switch so that when activated it turns the mount 360 degrees in 10 seconds. That happens to be how long it takes the A640 to take ten pictures in the continuous shoot mode.
SNIP
Gary, you probably aren't really in a position to assist as I am running JR radios, but I am thinking along similar lines, as today we flew our Trex AP ship with a 9ch Tx, and the pilot reckons that flying and operating tilt and shutter is just too busy (we don't have a stabiliser).

I realise that your solution was the reverse of what I am contemplating (using 2 Txs for one Rx)

I have my original 6ch Tx still programmed to fly the heli, which now has a 10ch Rx. If we have both Txs on, can a camera operator use the 9ch Tx to run channels 7-9 without touching the main controls (eg throttle/ail/elev/rudd), or will the stick on the 9ch Tx being in neutral screw up the inputs sent from the other Tx? I have looked at the manual and it doesn't seem to allow reassigning the "core" controls...

Am I blowing smoke, or is what I am suggesting feasible?

Thanks in advance

[GGoodrum]

Gary, you probably aren't really in a position to assist as I am running JR radios, but I am thinking along similar lines, as today we flew our Trex AP ship with a 9ch Tx, and the pilot reckons that flying and operating tilt and shutter is just too busy (we don't have a stabiliser).

I realise that your solution was the reverse of what I am contemplating (using 2 Txs for one Rx)

I have my original 6ch Tx still programmed to fly the heli, which now has a 10ch Rx. If we have both Txs on, can a camera operator use the 9ch Tx to run channels 7-9 without touching the main controls (eg throttle/ail/elev/rudd), or will the stick on the 9ch Tx being in neutral screw up the inputs sent from the other Tx? I have looked at the manual and it doesn't seem to allow reassigning the "core" controls...

Am I blowing smoke, or is what I am suggesting feasible?

Thanks in advance

I don't think it will work, using two transmitters with one receiver. Even if it would, it doesn't sound very safe. One way to do what you are proposing, however, is to use a trainer cord between the two transmitters. I know this works with Futabas, as I have done this with my 14MZ and 9CH radios, but I assume you can do the same thing with JR equipment. You should be able to only assign whatever channels you want to the 2nd transmitter.

-- Gary

[dreslism]

Gary,

Any issues with the dual Rx's. I heard someone in another thread (some electronics engineer) say you should not do that as the 2 Rx's could cause interference with each other because of their crystals being the same some form of radiated interference could happen.

I would not think there would be anything, but wondered if anyone else heard of this theory?

[GGoodrum]

No, none that I can see. I have not had a single "glitch" at all, near as I can tell.

The 14MZ even lets you use two G3 receivers. There's an option for assigning a 2nd receiver unique ID number.

[Tonystott]

Gary, you probably aren't really in a position to assist as I am running JR radios, but I am thinking along similar lines, as today we flew our Trex AP ship with a 9ch Tx, and the pilot reckons that flying and operating tilt and shutter is just too busy (we don't have a stabiliser).

I realise that your solution was the reverse of what I am contemplating (using 2 Txs for one Rx)

I have my original 6ch Tx still programmed to fly the heli, which now has a 10ch Rx. If we have both Txs on, can a camera operator use the 9ch Tx to run channels 7-9 without touching the main controls (eg throttle/ail/elev/rudd), or will the stick on the 9ch Tx being in neutral screw up the inputs sent from the other Tx? I have looked at the manual and it doesn't seem to allow reassigning the "core" controls...

Am I blowing smoke, or is what I am suggesting feasible?

Thanks in advance

I don't think it will work, using two transmitters with one receiver. Even if it would, it doesn't sound very safe. One way to do what you are proposing, however, is to use a trainer cord between the two transmitters. I know this works with Futabas, as I have done this with my 14MZ and 9CH radios, but I assume you can do the same thing with JR equipment. You should be able to only assign whatever channels you want to the 2nd transmitter.

-- Gary
Thanks Gary, unfortunately I hit a couple of snags investigating the trainer option using JR (9X v2):-
1) I cannot reassign the trainer switch to a toggle, so the switch has to be held to pass flight control to the slave, with obvious dangers
2) Both radios need to be in FM rather than PCM.

Oh well, it was a good exercise finding out... :?

[askman]

Sorry for the delay on shipping the test mounts that people have on order. I came up with much better way of putting the mount together, so I had to reprogram all the code. also, the new design will be cascading to my non pan mount, as it get rid of all glued join in the leg section, while making it stronger while maintaining same weight and easy to replace part. this will be the v2.0 series. :) anyway, I will be finishing and shipping all the test panmount on monday at the latest. this will also simplify my life, as I will only have each mount fitting several heli in each class.

thanks for understanding. :)

[cainebean]

What happens when you spool up? Does it spin at all or just some?

Caine

[GGoodrum]

It turns slowly while the blades spool up. I just let it make one rotation and then hold it.

-- Gary

[cainebean]

Cool. I love the freak... Ask and you get an answer...

[Cryofix]

It takes a small bit of getting used to because it is at a bad angle, once the blades or spun up to full power corrct your tail and the bird feels normal.