New Askman 360 Pan-LG mount for the Logo 10...

[GGoodrum]

I finally got around to talking some shots of my final (:))Logo 10 configuration with Andrey's new 360 Pan-LG mount. I tried test flying it today, but I ended up with a bad receiver (148DP...), that had been in a crash, installed in the helicopter. By the time I got it switched out, it was getting too dark. Anyway, here's the pics:



http://www.tppacks.com/photos/Logo%2010%20-%20PanLG-01.JPG

http://www.tppacks.com/photos/Logo%2010%20-%20PanLG-02.JPG

http://www.tppacks.com/photos/Logo%2010%20-%20PanLG-03.JPG

http://www.tppacks.com/photos/Logo%2010%20-%20PanLG-04.JPG


The AUW, as you see it, is 9 lb 6 ounces. The Logo 10 has a Z30A-800, a 21T pinion, a Phx HV-45 and a 10s a123 M1 pack, for power.

The mount has everything self-contained, including a separate receiver, UBEC and two-cell 1320 pack. This allows the whole mount to continuously rotate and not have any wires getting tangled.

It took me awhile to figure out how to do the radio programming. I have an 8-channel PCM receiver in the heli and a 9-channel one on the mount. This seems backwards, and I certainly didn't start out this way. The problem is that I needed 10 channels (6 for the heli, 1 for the AP-2000i and 3 for the mount...). The first thing I did was move the gyro gain to CH 4 in the AP-2000i, and used the freed up channel for the AP-2000i. That got the requirement down to 9 but the 9th channel on a DP149 is just for a switch, so it's not proportional. Of all the required channels, the camera trigger can be a simple on/off action, so that's why the 149 ended up on the mount.

I have the pan function assigned to a slider, which actually controls the turn rate for one of these continuous turn robot servos. I also programmed a mix to a switch so that when activated it turns the mount 360 degrees in 10 seconds. That happens to be how long it takes the A640 to take ten pictures in the continuous shoot mode.

Since we pretty much have it done, I think that this Logo 10 version should start being available now, either directly through Andrey's site (www.askmanap.com), or through TPpacks.com. I plan on doing package deals with Logo 10 kits and power systems. I think the price, for the mount alone, is $300.

We are also working on a slightly beefier version of this for the Raptors. It will have a pulley drive system in place of the gears, and is generally just scaled up a bit. Concept is the same, though. I think Andrey said it will be priced at around $350.

I hope to take my first series of panoramic shots with this setup tomorrow.

-- Gary

[dreslism]

Gary,

When you get a chance, some more close up picts of the mount, with dimensions of the camera location so I can see what will fit in there.

Your camera is in portrait, can it fit landscape also?

Having just bought a logo kit from you, I am interested in this mount also.

Thanks

[askman]

the camera mount can be used in landscape and portrait. it is 5"x4.3" spacing designe primarily for A640 sized camera, which has proven to provide great result. portrait was desirable for 360panorama. the raptor will have 6x5" camera mount. it will have belt drive, and higher torque servo.

this setup is available for logo 10, logo 14/20 as well as swift. one plate change will allow different heli to be used upto 10lb auw recommended.

I am pretty swamped at the moment. I've ran 2 cnc milling machines all day cutting. I am trying to catch up so that I can finish up the raptor setup among other stuff I need to do. expect first deivery to occur in about 2weeks. raptor setup should easily handle 15lb auw. I am going to be upgrading one of my cnc this winter to larger size. should help.

[Tonystott]

That is really impressive Gary.

[Menno]

Hi Gary and Andrey,

That is a neat looking mount.

Andrey,

The connection between the heli and the mount seems to be just one bolt. How much stress can it take when landing the helicopter. Or am I missing something?

The thought of a 360 mount for the smaller electrics has been wandering in my head for a few months now. I think those 360 images of tabbytabb got me infected.

Have you looked at the turntables that Servocity sells? I don't know how much the weigh, but they look stable. http://www.servocity.com/html/ball_bearing_turntables.html

Gary,

Is that a wide angle converter on the camera? Doesn't the landing gear get in the picture?

Menno

[Tonystott]

Looks like at least 1/4" diameter bolt. If that goes, there will already be a heck of a lot more other damage.

[WillJames]

Very cool, never though of a rotating undercarriage mount. Can't wait to see the Panos!!

Sweet developments guys!!

[panomaniac]

Gary, and close pic of your heli stup? I'm wondering where did you stick AP2000, RX, Gyro in such small space.... :? Also, what are you using as mount for FMA sensor? double gyro mount for Logo10 or something esle=

[GJestico]

raptor setup should easily handle 15lb auw.
:bomb:

[MLaBoyteaux]

Awesome setup guys! Now we need some tutorials on how to do the panos with the new mount! (hint, hint... :wink: )

[dreslism]

raptor setup should easily handle 15lb auw.
:bomb:

So you're saying what?

15 lbs is really bad for a raptor?

You wish you had a raptor that carried 15lbs?

???

Please enlighten us.

Thanks,

[askman]

it is 1/4" shaft. the turntable is not too bad an idea. I had to use screw because I have simple friction clutch built in, so if you land hard in off axis, it will keep the servo from being damaged. 1/4" can handle lot of force. you will damage other parts before damaging the shaft. besides, it is easy to replace.

the raptor sized will have leg strut made from 50% thicker material.

also, you can add spacer on one side of the mount between the frame and the LG, so that you can take the slight tilt during hover out of the picture.

[WillJames]

Now we need some tutorials on how to do the panos with the new mount! (hint, hint... :)



Do you have to buy one to get that info. ;) That info alone is probably worth buying one of the helis and mounts for. :smokin:

[rerazor]

also, you can add spacer on one side of the mount between the frame and the LG, so that you can take the slight tilt during hover out of the picture.

Great idea :D

[AZ ChopperCam]

Looks great! Aren't the noodles in the shot with that wide converter?

[Nitrospazzz]

I want to know how that thing flies with that AUW. I'm assuming that logo is running 500mm's? Nice work guys, I really like the idea of the whole mount rotating and that price is great.

[GGoodrum]

The friction mount works well, and is adjustable. There is also a bit of "give" in any direction, or self-dampaning, which should help minimize vibrations, although this thing is smooth as silk anyway.

The "noodles" are just out-of-view (I had to trim them back slightly...), and yes, there is a wide-angle lens and adapter ring on the A640. It is the one Canon sells and I think it has a magnification of 0.7x, which makes the equvalent minimum focal length about 24.5mm. In the portrait mode, that gives a vertical FoV of 72 degrees and a horizontal FoV of about 52 degrees. I love this camera becasue it is light, has the add-on lens capability, has 10+ MP and has a user-settable continuous shoot mode that lets you choose how many pics to take with a single press of the shutter button. It will do this as fast as your memory card will take them. The 2 gig card I'm using will do 10 shots in 10 seconds.

Here's a shot that kinda shows where I mounted things:

http://www.tppacks.com/photos/a123-M1-10s-Logo10-03.JPG


I put the receiver in the back, above where the boom mounts. The AP-2000i is above that. Since the battery pack is totally up front, there's lots of room inside the frames for the 401 gyro, a UBEC and the Phx HV 45 controller. The FMA sensor is mounted on a special plate that somebody did for me back when I was messing around with a CoPilot. It is simply a couple of hand-machined clamps and a CF plate. A Logo boom gyro mount would work just as well, I think. On the Raptors I just use a cut-down plastic horizontal fin and clamp.

As for tutorials, I'm not sure I'm that far ahead of anyone else, and I certainly have a way to go to catch up to Tabb. :) Having the "right" equipment is only half the battle. This new mount is a step in the right direction, though ;)

-- Gary

[GGoodrum]

I want to know how that thing flies with that AUW. I'm assuming that logo is running 500mm's? Nice work guys, I really like the idea of the whole mount rotating and that price is great.


Yes, they are the standard Mikado 500s. I have the h/s set right at 2000 rpm. With just the "noodles" and the struts, the AUW was around 6 lb 7 oz. I got a good 8.5-9 minutes of duration with the single a123 10-cell pack. Being this "light" it had some pretty awesome raw power. We did a couple of "launches" that shot this thing up clean out of sight in a blink of an eye, hitting 2000W+. :D

I'll hopefully have more to post about the performance aspects with the higher weight later today, when the wind dies down a bit. We have these damn Santa Ana winds again, which are a pain for getting tests done. It also pushes the temps up into the mid-90s, which is pretty nuts in November, even here in California.

I can't wait to get the Raptor version of this mount going as well. The new conversion that Andre and I are doing is "pre-setup" for the larger 360 Pan-LG mount. The battery tray/plate will replace the top plate that would normally attach to the skids.

-- Gary

[Cryofix]

I am first on the list for this right? :D

Sell me one so I can do testing too! I got a brand new Olypus Evolt 500 looking for a 360 degree underslung home!

You guys have done some fantastic work, and I cant wait to see the results.

[GJestico]

raptor setup should easily handle 15lb auw.
:bomb:

So you're saying what?

15 lbs is really bad for a raptor?

You wish you had a raptor that carried 15lbs?

???

Please enlighten us.

Thanks,

Let me get on the soapbox here.

When I see numbers like that I worry about safety.
For a Logo 10, or E-Raptor, or any other converted 3d heli that is being used in an industrial/commercial application such as AP,
Let us ask the following questions:

1-At what gross takeoff weight will :
(a) a structural failure occur ?
(b) the helis handling/manueverability become so marginal as to make safe operation impossible ?

2- Given the establishment of the max weight for question 1, what percentage of that weight are we operating at ?

Before all the conjecture starts flowing, lets deal with actual TESTED data.
Who can say it will be fine or not without such testing. We are dealing with a machine orginally designed to be flown in a controlled environment as a 3d heli.
Id like to see a statement from Logo or Thunder tiger that they even approve of any AP use of their helis, even at stock weight. We take our chances with them as is. Doesnt mean they wont perform well, but at waht point is too much, too much ?.

I have done my own testing on a 600 blade/6mm spindle heli and found the spindle can bend from flight loads at a gross weight of 12 lbs.

Given some of the posts one sees on these forums, its frightening to think of the experience level of some individuals persuing AP helis. A serious package like this will find its way over flying a "sensitive" area.
There is a HUGE differnece between autoing a heavy heli out of fast forward flight when you hit the hold switch, and having a failure while hovering stationary, and not realising power is lost until you see the blades start to slow. You will be lucky to even keep it upright on the way down.

All this would be a lot less of a factor if this setup was not being offered as a package to anyone with the money. I would have nothing but praise.
If I was Gary or Askman, I would make sure my liability insurance was bulletproof, and, make the customer sign a waiver.

Dont mean to take anything away from Gary's and Askmans work. Its ingenious and well executed.

off the box now :!:


Greg

[GJestico]

also, you can add spacer on one side of the mount between the frame and the LG, so that you can take the slight tilt during hover out of the picture.

Since I'm already being a downer, I will point out that that will work only when the mount is pointing straight ahead towards the helis nose. When it points backward the error will be twice as large as it would have been with out the shim.

:glasses2:

Greg

[AZ ChopperCam]

When it points backward the error will be twice as large

look at the design closer, then think about that again and let me know if you still think the same way. :roll:

as far as a 15lb Raptor I agree that is REALLY pushing it. Mine is 12.5lb or less and I wouldn't put much more on it without a heftier head.

Also just because a Raptor may fly at 12lb on 600's with enough watts that says nothing for auto ability. I fly my ships only as heavy as they can be auto'd. Many guys flying gassers with underslungs can't even say that. :lol:

[GJestico]

You're right, I take that back. I was thinking the shim was elsewhere. See I can admit I'm wrong :badair: :smokin:

[askman]

Now, I do agree with you on not having a too high a disc loading. what I meant is that LG system itself is designed to handle that kind of load with margin for hard landing. I just like to give maximum recommended load on the mount, as I have designed it to adapt to various heli. may be I should have called it .30 sized and .60 sized, as that is what I meant.

Now, I do recommend lowest disc-loading possible. gary's setup is pretty unique. it is about as heavy as you are going to have in logo 10. I believe his lense weighs about 1lb. but it is also setup as testbed. besides, logo can easily be stretched to 550, which makes 9lb setup a more reasonable preposition. high discloading does make it harder to auto. . safe flying practice and good maintenance is a must in all cases. for spindle size vs load, I am not sure what you mean by 12lb on 6mm spindle. because spindle only see load put there by the blade. 12lb heli doing 10G 3D maneuver is much different than doing 2G mild flight. overall load is what is important for margin of safety. looking at vario benzine, 830mm at 1300rpm has same force on the spindle as 1000mm at 850rpm. vario infact has recommended rpm based on centrifugal loading. this idea is valid for any heli within reasonable range for stretching. I would say you can go safely one blade size up keeping force the same. (500 to 550, 550 to 600, 600 to 660)

I am all for using the right tool for the job.

[AZ ChopperCam]

See I can admit I'm wrong

I can too but damn I hate doing it!

:D

Andrey I really like the mount. Curious to see the Raptor version.