Logo 14. 611gyro, tail blowing out, settings & Rant

[OICU812]

Oh and it is solid in FFF and backward flight, it happens when I do back pushover, tight back loops and stuff like that. It is a "grunt" of a noise when things are trying to catch up sort of speak and it is not 20-30 degree blowout, it is more like 150-190 degrees.
:shock:

[NTM]

Oh and it is solid in FFF and backward flight, it happens when I do back pushover, tight back loops and stuff like that. It is a "grunt" of a noise when things are trying to catch up sort of speak and it is not 20-30 degree blowout, it is more like 150-190 degrees.
:shock:

I'm running futaba Shawn.
You can move the neutral position of the tail servo around with the sub trim with no adverse effects. Primarily setup mechanically, then just a little sub trim to dial it in.

I just had a nasty thought, perhaps we're finding the limitation of the 9650s ability to provide positive control to the swash. You're running very stiff custom v-blades right Shawn ?
Could be getting brief flares to higher pitch than you want, if the servo's torque rating isn't up to the task with these newer high head speed, no bog, high pitch setups ?
That would explain the "grunt" noise.

[OICU812]

Well each to their own I was taught to never use subtrim on a tr servo, Futaba anyways. And in regards to the 9650 thing, man I dunno about that one you look at the way the pros are throwing things at em, I doubt it. Mind you I run a UBEC not a sep rx pack either, so maybe I am getting abit of drop off in voltage,,, but I doubt that to, lol. Oh well it is supposed to warm up here by weekend, if all goes well I will try more out. BTW.... I went downstairs and by looking at it there is no way at the current 13.4mm "center of ball to center of horn" out to get more throw towards the boom than 110 on amp, in fact 110 is about 50 degrees of deflection biting to the right which is too much, going towards slider it is 128, this is with the slider as close to center as I could get it as per comments. I have no idea how the 135 even on both sides is being acheived ??? Odd....

I was also looking at the spacing of the slider guides, I'd like to see a pic of how your rod is Nathan with the five, the front of my rod is bent downwards about 3 inches backs.

[Finless]

Shawn... forget the pre-drilled holes in the servo arms. Get the medium sized servo wheel and drill your own hole at 90 and the proper distance to give you between 110 and 120 on your 611 amp end points. If I still had Will's heli here I would measure the MM out for you.

Just give it a try.... Worst that can happen is it doesnt solve it ;)

Bob

[NTM]

the front of my rod is bent downwards about 3 inches backs.

I'm sorry to hear that :mrgreen:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/NTM95/IMG_0729.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/NTM95/IMG_0732.jpg

[OICU812]

So I got to messin around more last night, after all the reading etc I went downstairs for far too long and draged my arse all day because of it lol .... No matter where I positioned the slider on the tr shaft I could not get the "boom side" to be 110 without exceeding 45 degrees of deflection, this of course at 13.4mm out from center horn. Now so then I moved it all around and min I could get the deflection "left bite" was 125 on amp, but here is the deal, if I drop the distance I will be less than 100 on "right bite" and still "more than likely" be over 45 degrees which will do nothing but bite the wind and not move the heli and control the tail right?. After closer looking and thinking about what everyone has said I think my issue is that I have too much deflection "biting right" and that when I shoot over that point of 45 degrees it "grunts" to find center and its' happy spot, so the key would be to find how to get it so I get 45 degrees both ways but not "over". Then I got to thinking "painfull for me at 3am" hey maybe these people are moving the tail hub inwards more than the stock flatspot. At this point the only way I can see 110-120 both ways on the tr slider no matter where the ball on servo horn is, ,,,is to move the tr hub in abit further than the flat stock spot on the tr shaft, or at least this is what I am thinking at this point...


Maybe it is too late and I am not making sense again, but I truly think this is the issue now that I go back into what I have seen and what has happened. Thoughts, "other than I do not make sense or I am over thinking this...."?

[Finless]

Huh? Sorry I dont get it? If you get the servo arm straight UP in relation to the frames and boom (ie, no differential in servo arm movement front to back), and the pitch slider in the center by adjusting the push rod links, then tell me how you cant get even throw from center to left and right? Something is not making sense......

Bob

[MrMel]

Key is that you should go by the slider as bob states, not by the arm, Mikado has built in a few degrees deflection, so if you place the arm (at the tail) at 90 degrees, your actually placing the slider a bit offset.

[OICU812]

By putting the Mikado slider arm at 90 with boom your tail blades are in the 3.5-5.0 degree to the right deflection "which Ralph told me was a purpose thing for the offset", or ie: mechanical set roughly for no movement in hover. I will report back later,I think it may be in the amp actually.....

[Daniel Jetschin]

My ball :shock: is about 13,5-14mm away from center at the horn.

[OICU812]

Ok so I am in the right range there good then. I found that on the "boom side" I was going over 45 degrees with my limits over 120, in fact I had to back my limit off to 100 even to get me under 45 degrees of bite, towards rotor hub I am now 110ish'. Not the optimum but from Bobs comments and others I would think now that 12.8-13.0mm from center of horn would be perfect. I am almost 99% certain this was my issue is that I was "over pitching" the tail rotor in that direction and under load and fast maneuvers when I would go over it would produce the "grunt noise" and drop the tail hard. I will need some warm weather to prove it, but I can bet this was the issue. I certainlly do not understand how anyone can get over 100-105 on the boom side for limit without going over 45 degrees on the tr blades?... at least with my measurement of 13.4mm from center of horn. It is impossible as I tried it with slider centered perfectly and using a digital measuring device and the whole nine. Anyhow I am happy and certain this was it. As stated for anyone building this heli I think 12.8 to 13.0 mm is perfect for distance on the tr servo horn for the ball, that measurement should get you with having 110-120 range on both sides and get you the full deflection but NOT more than you need. Cheers :)

[NTM]

Hmmm, so it's probably stalling the tail blades you figure ?
I had an issue like that with my little 4 cell trex once, too much pitch on the tail blades and it would just snap the blade off, took quite a few autos and bent tail shafts to figure that one out :lol:

You should try some 105mm blades and see what happens.
If it ever gets warmer than -30 around here again :WOW .

[OICU812]

Yeah exactly Nathan not stalling but beating air and doing nothing till the gyro figured it out,, so kinda stalling in a sense, I don't think I need bigger blades at all Radix 92s should be more than plenty. Was thinking of 95s but then that is pretty much touching ground or very near 105s certainly would not fit/work and would look pretty silly too, lol,,, I just think when it needed to bite it was shooting over was all. As stated there is no way to go over 100 on limit that way at the distance I have which is 13.4, I can not see 100 being an issue at all, the manual states as long as it is 100 or over, so I will give that a go as any arm "bucket of like 100+" I found has a next hole of 12.0mm or less, and at this point not sure I need to make one to lose a half a mm on the distance to get 5% more or so one way...... Anyhow I will try it someday, as you say when it ever gets warmed up abit.