Help me Build my New Heli

[Jermo]

ok, I found out that Santa will be bringing me a new T-REX XL HDE Kit with a carrying case.

I still need lots of parts and will be assembling this as I get the cash.

There are way too many options and decisions for an un-informed new person to try to decide and mistakes are expensive.

I'm a beginner. I'm looking for a reliable, stable setup where my crashes will be due to pilot error rather than faulty or junk parts.

That being said I don't have an unlimited budget and spending $1000 on Heli parts is not within my reach.

There are places where we can cut costs and places where cost cutting is a bad idea.

For a radio I have an XF622 and R600 Reciever with NES 507 Servos. I'm pretty sure my servos are too big/slow for the T-Rex (based on trex tuning site).

so i guess the list is something like:

Motor
Gyro
Tail servo (just 1 I think)
other servo's (3? or 4?)
Battery
other? not sure what else I need.

Also what blades do you suggest for general flying/learning, the plan is to get blades as they go on sale/special and stock up before I need them.

My flying style will be just casual flying until I'm 100% then I'll consider doing mild 3d (probably this time next year or later...just depends) but I doubt it due to the cost of crashing ( I do expect to crash and I do expect it to cost, I plan to go slow and steady following RADD. I'm able to do fig 8s and hovers with BCX that's defective so I'm used to minding the tail).

ty in advance.
jermo

[spork]

Well, there are a million options as you've suggested. But I'll try and give at least some solid answers:

Motor: Align 430L

Gyro: Futaba GY401

Tail servo (just 1 I think): I'll let others respond to this one. But I know you can get by with a $20 servo for learning because that's all I fly (works fine for loops, rolls, inverted...)

other servo's (3? or 4?): You'll need three servos for cyclic and collective. Again, I'll let others make the suggestions here.

Battery: Lot's of choices. You'll want one or more LiPo (lithium-polymer) packs. You'll want to start with a 3S (11.1V pack) with current capability of at least 15C and capacity of 2000 mah give or take. The Thunder Power Pro-Lites are pretty much the standard, but it seems like there are a lot of other options lately. You can certainly save money purchasing some of the others. I'm not sure if you'll save with them in the long run.


other? not sure what else I need:
You'll need a good LiPo charger
ESC: Align 35A

blades: Most people agree that the Align 325 pro woodies are pretty good blades (even for some 3D). The good news is that you can get them for under $12.00

Yep, you'll crash. But the T-Rex has to be about the most afordable helis to crash among any of the "real" R/C helis. Be careful, but not intimidated.

There is no such thing as THE perfect setup. But I guarantee the choices above are pretty solid.

[HeliDan]

Being a noob my self, I am no pro. But I have done tons of research for the TREX-450 SE that I am getting tomorrow.

Here is my own list, based on that research:
* Radio, depends on how much you want to spend, I'm getting Jr XP9303

* GY401 Gyro W/S9650 tail servo (Futaba)
* Cyclic servos, Hitec HS-65MG
* Rotors, Align 325 Pro Woodies
* Thunder power 1010 charger w/210 balancer, you can get cheaper ones
* Flight power (duralight) EVO2150-3Sp1PV LiPos
* Boom bottom gyro mounting kit

Motor and ESC, 830L and align 35.

And don't forget about the required accessories and tools:
* LiPo connectors, I am using deans
* ball link pliers
* ball link sizer
* rotor balancer
* Allen driver set (use the screwdriver handle sets)
* Rotor pitch gauge
* blue and red loctite
* double stick foam tape
* oil and grease and silicone spray lube
* Caliper for adjusting linkages


I am sure there are other accessories, but that's my list

[kgfly]

Well you asked for opinions so you will get a few, here's mine for someone on a tight budget that would rather save now and maybe pay extra to upgrade someday down the track:

Heli - Try to convince Santa to bring you a new TRex 450 S (or SA) kit instead. It is only a few dollars more than the HDE and quite a lot better IMO.

Motor/ESC - Align 430L/35G. Getting these bundled with the kit is usually an excellent deal.

Gyro - Futaba GY401. I started with an MKSGY191 HH gyro at 1/3rd the price and for learning and sport flying it was every bit as good as the 401 I have now. I only got the 401 because I damaged the GY191 in a crash and just had to try it to see what all the fuss was about. The 191 is easier to mount. The 401 is a little easier to setup and no doubt is better for high performance flying. I have no problem recommending the GY191 if you want to save money up front recognising that you might have to spend a bit more to upgrade later if you outgrow it.

Tail servo - Yes, just one. I agree with Spork, for now get a Hitec HS56. If you ever get into 3D you can upgrade to a digital servo. The Futaba 9650 is the market leader but there are new ones out from both Futaba and JR that are smaller, lighter and cheaper. Opinions about them will be better known in a few months time when more people have tried them out.

other servo's (just 3) - Get the Hitec HS-65MG, definitely worth the extra few dollars for their good performance and great robustness. Nothing matches them for crash survival which means less time and money repairing and more time flying. Replacing servo gears is a fiddly and time consuming job.

Battery - Again, the market leaders are not hard to pick. For me it made more sense to get 3 cheap batteries for my learning phase than burning up the lifetime of 1 expensive one with performance I couldn't use. I have had good success with hextronik batteries from unitedhobbies.com. I have 3S 2200 12C/16C ones and so far (~150 cycles across 3 batteries) they are going strong. If I had to replace them today I would buy their new 3S 2200 20C/30Cs which at $32 are damn good value. If you want lighter weight they also have a 3S 1700 20C/30C which at $28 is even cheaper. Example: https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2045

blades - Align Pro 325 woodies or Tech-mp 325 woodies (marginally cheaper especially if you buy 3 pairs at a time).

charger - Again you can save some money up front at the risk of needing to upgrade later, but don't go too cheap, lipos need a top quality, reliable charger that will let you monitor how much charge is going back into them. An integrated balance charger is a great idea for the convenience, simplicity and reduced risk of error. Take a look at the eStation-BC5 and the FMS CellPro4S. These are excellent for 3S/4S setups but if you get a bigger eHeli down the track with 6S-10S then at that time you will need to upgrade.

other?
Never try to save money on tools, it will cost you in the end. HeliDan's list is pretty good but if you are on a tight budget you really can do perfectly well without:

* ball-link sizing tool (never use mine any more and you can make your own from a scored ball)
* ball-link pliers (most of them are too big to work on a TRex anyway)
* digital caliper (I just use a good quality metal ruler with 1mm and 0.5mm markings)
* red loctite (not used on a TRex)
* oil or grease (IMO they just attract dust and dirt which causes wear)

You will also need:
* soldering iron
* self-adhesive velcro
* good quality Phillips-head screw drivers size 00, 0 and 1.
* hobby knife and a pack of blades
* CA glue (thin and medium)

Spares
2 x pkt of main shafts
2 x main gears
2 x pkt of feathering/spindle shafts
2 x pkt of blade grips
1 x outdoor first-aid kit

Building tips
Watch all the Finless videos here on Helifreak, including all the HDE ones and all the general TRex ones. It will help you a lot with your build.
http://www.helifreak.com/viewforum.php?f=95

Happy shopping, building and flying.

[spork]

Great advice Kenneth. I'm going to check out those batteries myself.


you really can do perfectly well without: ...
* red loctite (not used on a TRex)


This is the only point I'd argue. My opinion is - don't use red loctite on anything, ever. :mrgreen: My boss just went kitesurfing with me in TX. He used red loctite to hold the footstrap screws in place on the board I loaned him. Luckily his feet and stance are similar to my own. I sure hope those straps never wear out or I'll have to throw the board out. :(

[HeliDan]

Wow, some of the forums and mag articles say that red loctite is necessary in a couple places. But ok, wont use it.

Really? The ball-link pliers wont work? Then I guess I need to find another tool for that. Since I'm going to day, I'll ask the hobbyshop guy. He flys his rex everyday so I be he has a good idea. What are you using?

Also read that oil/grease is required for the bearings. Again, this is not true? Remember that some of the articles are generic heli. So NEVER use oil/grease?, or only on small helis like the REX?

Thanx

[spork]

Wow, some of the forums and mag articles say that red loctite is necessary in a couple places. But ok, wont use it.

Red loctite does have it's applications. Particularly on parts that get very hot. But personally, I don't use it on anything, ever.

Really? The ball-link pliers wont work?

I think he was simply saying they're a luxury.

Also read that oil/grease is required for the bearings.

Personally, I put a drop of oil on the tail-rotor shaft once in a while, but nothing else. It seems some folks lube their tail-belt with silicone spray. Lubing the bearings might be a good idea, but I've never done it.

[Jermo]

ok..so a hs56 instead of a 9650 servo? is there any reason I can't use a hs65 for the tail intead of a hs56? they are the same price (ok within $1) from the vendor.

nobody complained about my xf622 and R600 reciever so they are ok? can they use digital servos?

I'm pretty excited. I've downloaded all of Bob (finless) videos and have watched them at least once through..

My kit is already ordered T-Rex XL HDE. The reason I didn't go SA was I didn't see an HDE model only CDE/CCPM and my radio doesn't have CCPM (but does support heli).

I am definately looking forward to starting on building. I plan to take pics along the way. I'll be constructing this over a few months as I continue to fly and get my Heli reflexes ingrained. Takes 27 days to develop a habit so I'm not going anywhere too fast. Slow and stead all the way.
jermo

[spork]

nobody complained about my xf622 and R600 reciever so they are ok? can they use digital servos?

I think any current radio will support digital servos. The only problem with the 622 would be that it doesn't support CCPM. The HDE setup works fine. I just converted to CCPM because it gets rid of a number of linkages and slop. It's very easy to convert later if you decide to.

I'll be constructing this over a few months as I continue to fly and get my Heli reflexes ingrained.

Good plan, but if it takes you more than one month we'll give you the prize for the most patient freak yet. :mrgreen:

[Jermo]

hehe..it's more economics than patience. The plan is to have it built plus have repair parts/spares on hand..hehe...
jermo

[kgfly]

ok..so a hs56 instead of a 9650 servo? is there any reason I can't use a hs65 for the tail intead of a hs56? they are the same price (ok within $1) from the vendor.

You can use an HS65 on the tail but an HS56 is lighter and faster which is better for the tail. If the price difference is only $1 then you may not be looking at the HS-65MG (metal gear) version but the HS-65HB (karbonite gears). Get the metal gears, costs a few dollars more but *very* worthwhile.

nobody complained about my xf622 and R600 reciever so they are ok? can they use digital servos?
Well you seemed pretty definite that you wanted to work with what you've got. It will work for now. You might have some RF noise/glitch problems as I think that is a PPM system rather than PCM. Read up about electronics placement, routing all your power wires and radio wires separately and the use of a ferrite ring between the ESC and the Rx.

Down the track if you feel the need to upgrade I personally recommend the 2.4GHz spread spectrum technology for it's inherently greater safety and reliability. The hot item currently being the Spektrum DX7 or for a budget buyer, the DX6. In fact with the DX7 just released this week, you might see some very good deals on 2nd hand DX6s or even better, DX6102 (JR6102 upgraded with the RF board from a DX6).

My kit is already ordered T-Rex XL HDE. The reason I didn't go SA was I didn't see an HDE model only CDE/CCPM and my radio doesn't have CCPM (but does support heli).

Hmmm. There's no doubt the HDE will be just fine and fly well (my first TRex was an HDE). I just think that the improvements in the S or SA are worthwhile and you may well end up paying extra for them later on. I am easily tempted to slide up the feature curve so if it was me, this is one area where I would spend the money up front on a CCPM-capable radio and the better heli. However the HDE + XF622/R600 will do the job.

Enjoy!

[spork]

I just think that the improvements in the S or SA are worthwhile and you may well end up paying extra for them later on. I am easily tempted to slide up the feature curve so if it was me, this is one area where I would spend the money up front on a CCPM-capable radio and the better heli. However the HDE + XF622/R600 will do the job.

I think lots of people would agree with Kenneth about those features, but it is pretty easy to start pulling on a pretty long thread too. I personally think there's a lot to be said for getting in with a little less cost and working toward your dream machine once you've figured out you're hooked. For me upgrading is half the fun.

No doubt Kenneth is right about the Spektrum being a great way to go (for several reasons), but I flew my Rex on FM for a good while. As he says, use of a ferrite and careful wiring practice will work just fine.

[Jermo]

I'm definately looking at the DX7 for the future but that will probably be next Christmas with a new bird. I may upgrade my T-Rex as I do repairs but I guess my viewpoint is fuzzy due to lack of experience. From my vantage I need a stable baseline to learn from (and return to when I lose confidence). I can always get a bling bird on the side once I have the basics down 100%. I really like the spread sprectrum technology but I'm limited on $$ so I have to over plan things to reduce downtime. IMOH it's better to fy at least once a week than to be down for a month.

hehe..let me get this thing finished and flying then I can start saving up for radio upgades and a new bird.
jermo

[kgfly]

Jermo - sounds like you've got a good plan overall, you are going to have a lot of fun :)

I'm definately looking at the DX7 for the future but that will probably be next Christmas
Great plan and you never know, by next Xmas there may well be a DX9 :twisted:

[spork]

you never know, by next Xmas there may well be a DX9 :twisted:

GREAT! Then folks will be dumping their DX7 gear and I can get one. :mrgreen:

[Jermo]

I see that HH has the DX7 listed for $350 with servo's ..etc, Hopefully by the time I look to purchase one I can get just the TX/RX since the servo's won't be useful for my heli.

I'm looking at paint schemes and strongly thinking trainer orange with the tail feathers Red on the right side and Green (flourescent<sp>) on the left so I can more easily tell orientation...thoughts? I'll try to mspaint a mockup..
jermo

[kgfly]

Yup - high visibility paint schemes are a great idea IMO. Choose colours that stand out against blue-sky, grey-sky and trees - flouro orange for the canopy works very well. Do something to help distinguish the top from the bottom, maybe leave a patch of white on the bottom, or black for the windscreen (eg don't cut it out, just colour it in with a permanent marker).

[Jermo]

omg I just saw a video of some guy named Jerry flying. I had no idea a Heli could do any of that hehe... wonder if an electric could do that degree of hopping around?? he seemed to be at both extremes of pitch constantly. Do folks learn to fly like that on a sim or just win the lotto and burn through alot of birds? :shock:
Jermo

[spork]

Do folks learn to fly like that on a sim or just win the lotto and burn through alot of birds? :shock:
Jermo

I believe the top pilots do plenty of sim time (or have done plenty of sim time), and definitely plenty of actual stick time. There's no substitute (yet) for the real model.

I don't know if you have to win the lotto to get that good, but I'm ready to find out. Ends up I'm a finalist in the Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes! Heck - I may already be a winner! :mrgreen:

[Jermo]

WOOT!! GRATZ!!! I look forward to seeing the video's of your dancing T-Rex :cool:

I'm saving for a sim but it's down the list below a new radio :wink:

Looking at the Spectrum DX6 and the DX7 I don't see the big deal with the DX7. They both seem to have spread spectrum with the difference being the DX7 in the 2.4GHz range. I need to re-read the specs.
jermo

[spork]

I'm saving for a sim but it's down the list below a new radio

I personally think you should consider downloading FMS for free. Then you buy the $30 USB cable, and you're done.

Most people bag on FMS a little (I'm sure the pricey sims are better). But I've been very impressed with how good it is for free S/W. It's far better than the sim I paid $200 for years ago.

I suspect that $30 will pay itself back many times over.

[kgfly]

Jermo,

I agree with Spork, FMS is perfectly fine for learning about orientation and basic flight controls, well worth the cost of a cable (or the Esky USB controller). The good news is that since your XF622 is a JR radio, the USB cable you get for it will also work with a DX6 or DX7.

The DX6 and DX7 are both 2.4GHz spread spectrum. Apart from the obvious (DX6 = 6ch, 10 memories, DX7 = 7ch, 20 memories) the DX7 is a higher performance and more highly featured computer radio with a superior user interface. It is also the 2nd generation of Spektrum's DSM technology which is even more robust. It will take a long time to outgrow the capabilities of the DX7and it provide more future proofing since all the new Rx are DSM2 and do not work with the DX6 Tx. I would strongly recommend saving for a bit longer to get the DX7.

[Jermo]

Will do :) it will still likely be next Christmas for the DX7 tho..I just hope I can get some milage on my 622... most peeps at my LHS dont' remember much about the radio (and they're the ones that sold it to me!! ).
Jermo

[spork]

I think you could easily use the 622 for a year. You might be able to download the manual. Otherwise I'm sure there are plenty of folks that could get their hands on one. I think I might even know of one.

Then next Christmas you can fret over whether to get the outdated DX7 or the new DX9 :mrgreen:

BTW, I do agree with Kenneth about passing on the DX6.

[kgfly]

You could download the DX6 manual and see if the instructions there work with your 622. The user interface is similar so perhaps the basic operation will be the same ?