PDA

View Full Version : Follow up on loose motor shaft support bearing.


Winfred
07-08-2010, 08:52 AM
I made posts a while ago about a snapped scorpion motor shaft, that had not seen that much of run time. And broken tail push rod guides.
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=224688
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=219363

Here is how it all went down.
It all started with small tail kicks that I could not get rid of. I was thinking vibrations, so I changed main shaft, feathering shaft, flybar and flybar paddles. I balanced and re-balanced tail blades and main blades, but nothing helped. New set of main and tail baldes.. nothing. Played around with different lenght on the tail servo horn, nope, not that either. One day the vibrations went so bad that the tail servo just snapped the tail rod guides. The tail must have been doing back and forth kicks so hard that it did not show on the tail. Instead of moving the tail, the energy went into flexing the push rod, and then snapping the guides. A while after, when it was time to re-check the gear mesh, I noticed that the shaft support bearing had come loose. Did not think so much about it and pushed it back with some green loctite. A few flights after that and the motor shaft snapped. At that point I really wondered how this could have happened.
Now when knowing what the cause is, looking at the remains of the shaft shows that the bearing was having a party and oscillating around the shaft big time. Well, that would probably be the source of the hf vibration. Even though I re-attached the bearing the shaft was probably already much weakened by the vibrations, and the heat generated by metal vs metal contact. The pinion spacer was a bit blueish indicating around 500F. And the side loading from running a loose bearing would have stressed the shaft quite a bit.
Now after the shaft change I also noticed that I have gained +600mah in flight time, so it was robbing the system from a considerable amount of power. Just check the two graphs. The first from when the bearing was loose, and the second after the fix.
So if you have a weird vibe, remember to check the support bearing.

Mecos
07-08-2010, 03:26 PM
I had a close call with respect to your experience.

http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=1245991&postcount=10

I have since removed the third bearing altogether. Over 250 flights without it and no issue using both the Scorpion and the NEU motors. No main gear stripping either as some predicted. But then again I fly only big sky sport with mild 3D.

:)

DominicD
07-08-2010, 03:39 PM
I haven't used the 3rd bearing since my first 10 flights on my 550.

s0laris
07-08-2010, 04:08 PM
is this the flanged bearing on the motor mount ?

so you basically have NO bearings at all anywhere on the motor shaft ?

Winfred
07-08-2010, 04:22 PM
I had a close call with respect to your experience.

http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=1245991&postcount=10

I have since removed the third bearing altogether. Over 250 flights without it and no issue using both the Scorpion and the NEU motors. No main gear stripping either as some predicted. But then again I fly only big sky sport with mild 3D.

:)

Hmm... Interesting read, that thread. Foxden seems pretty adamant in his opinion, and then we have those that have been running without bearings, with no problems what so ever.
I'm going to follow Liths advice and put some green loctite between the ID bearing race and shaft and see how it turns out.

DominicD
07-08-2010, 05:06 PM
I took mine out because of a silly mistake i made when first building my 550, just never got around to putting it back on.

Mecos
07-08-2010, 09:40 PM
is this the flanged bearing on the motor mount ?

so you basically have NO bearings at all anywhere on the motor shaft ?


Sure there is. The motor itself has two bearings on the shaft.

:YeaBaby:

s0laris
07-08-2010, 11:57 PM
You know what I mean lol.

i like the idea of the green lock tite. i think that is the best of both worlds.

alah
07-10-2010, 02:20 AM
Hi there,on my 550 also recently start to kick tail from one flight day to another.
I was thinking then somethink have to go loose and i change timing belt,front pulley and nothink helps.Thanks God then I find this thread.I was start to go crazy.So now i know where should i look for.Also my motor get considerably hotter but i was thinking then thats becouse is somethink wrong with the tail drive system.
Thanks:thumbup:

Rob43
07-10-2010, 08:00 AM
Curse to the Scorpion! Go Neu!

frogbmth
07-11-2010, 05:05 PM
I took mine apart today and the bearing is completely shot. :arggg:

s0laris
07-11-2010, 05:18 PM
Curse to the Scorpion! Go Neu!

the scorpion motor doesnt have any influence of that than the neu.. they both use the same plate with same third bearing if you so choose.

Speaking of which what is the final verdict on it ? I am thining the green locktite on inner race makes themost sense.. the Align 700e does the 3rd bearing too

backburner1955
07-11-2010, 08:03 PM
the scorpion motor doesnt have any influence of that than the neu.. they both use the same plate with same third bearing if you so choose.

Speaking of which what is the final verdict on it ? I am thining the green locktite on inner race makes themost sense.. the Align 700e does the 3rd bearing too

With seeing how loose the motor shaft fits in the third bearing, Loctite 609 medium strength retaining compound ao Loctite 641 controlled strength retaining compound would make perfect sense. The 609 requires a little bit more heat and force to remove than the 641. The 609 is the same as the green compound that comes from ALIGN in thier kits.

Just make sure to let it sit for 24hrs after assembly to set properly.

Winfred
07-12-2010, 03:54 PM
the scorpion motor doesnt have any influence of that than the neu.. they both use the same plate with same third bearing if you so choose.

Speaking of which what is the final verdict on it ? I am thining the green locktite on inner race makes themost sense.. the Align 700e does the 3rd bearing too

I went with the green stuff. And not only on the third bearing. After inspecting the old broken shaft, I figured that the inner races of the bearings, inside the motor, would do fine with some green.

This is where the scorpion bearings supported the shaft. I'm starting to think that most of the scorpion bearing failures is due to poor bearing fitting, causing slipping and heat, resulting in that the grease boils of and the bearing fails prematurely.

backburner1955
07-12-2010, 04:40 PM
I went with the green stuff. And not only on the third bearing. After inspecting the old broken shaft, I figured that the inner races of the bearings, inside the motor, would do fine with some green.

This is where the scorpion bearings supported the shaft. I'm starting to think that most of the scorpion bearing failures is due to poor bearing fitting, causing slipping and heat, resulting in that the grease boils of and the bearing fails prematurely.

That would definetly cause premature failure, I would guess that it would help add life to your scorpion motors to loctite the pinion end bearing to reduce slippage.

s0laris
07-12-2010, 04:56 PM
Pete, have you removed the bearing plate from your neu ?

curious if it shows same symptoms.