Batteries, Connectors, Charger... Help me out?

[Ligblou]

Hi!

I have bought the T-Rex 450SE kit with electronics from RC-Expert (http://www.rc-expert.com/product-package.php?pid=281).

With the kit came (see images below):
- "Extreme Power 11.1V 1800mAh 12C Li-polymer" battery,
- "Extreme Power 11.1V 2200mAh 18C Li-polymer",
- "11.1V Lithium Battery Charger",
- Connectors with wires (2 male, 1 female)

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/984647c6963564219cb8cc8e890ed7b5.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/a3d2ff8ce65cdd2b46c2b8b408dcebb6.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/47fe97b765b555cfcad32f86d2c0df2c.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/37bc8897d126ca48bc0611d4f2fef010.jpg

The female connector found on the 1800mAh (12C) battery (red) matches those of the extra wires. The 2200mAh (18C) battery (black) does not have a connecotor on it. I believe the connector on the charger is a JST plug, the same as found on my Esky HoneyBee CP2's batteries and 4-in-1 controller.

Now for my questions:

What type of connectors are those? Shouldn't I rather use Ultra Deans connectors on the ESC and on both batteries (cut of connector on 1800mAh battery)? If not, how should I go about connecting these?

The other connectors on both batteries are the balance charge plugs/connectors, am I correct? They look like the charge plug on my CP2's batteries, but will they work with the 2/3 cell esky charger?

"Li-ion Charger" is printed on the included charger's label - is this correct? Will it charge Li-Poly batteries? Will it charge the included batteries? With that connector, most probably not :wink:

PS! This is how I think they meant for it to be connected. Attach the included female connector to the the 2200mAh battery (black). Attach one of the male connectors to the charger. Attach the other male connector to the ESC.

Your help is appreciated! We noobs have to start somewhere... can't wait for the T-Rex to be up and running.

Best regards!

[Finless]

Wow I dont know even where to start here.

1) DUMP those tamiya connectors as they cant handle the AMP loads.
2) The charger has a completely different connector and is made for Lion NOT Li-poly. I personally would not use it at all.

OK so here is what I would do.
1) Go get Deans connectors and put them on your batteries and charger.
2) Go get a good li-poly charger and balancer. You need to be able to BALANCE the cells on that battery and that is what the 4 pin plug is for.

What they sold you for connectors and a charger is pure garbage in my opinion.

Bob

[Ligblou]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the advice, that is what I thought as well. Luckily we have you and your videos, as well as the other freaks round here.

Any opinion on the batteries? According to the report at TRexTuning (http://www.trextuning.com/lipos.php) the 18C battery (black) doesn't seem to bad.

Any good charger and balancer you would recommend that would not empty the bank account? I don't plan on flying anything bigger than the 450SE in the near future. Do these balance plugs/connectors fit all chargers or are there specific battery and charger combinations? How does the seperate charger and balancer work, does the balancer sit between the charger and battery?

Thanks!

[Ligblou]

Bob / Others

Please see the response from RC-Expert regarding the Li-ion charger below.

Can anybody else confirm this? I don't want to take a chance especially of the Lipos nature to blow up.

Regards.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: cs@rc-expert <cs@rc-expert.com>
Date: Nov 28, 2006 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: TranID-604194 & TranID-603920
To: Willie Erasmus <[Edit: Removed email address] >


there is no difference between li-ion and li- polymer charger.
they are the SAME. you can charge them.
you you don't trust. you can go to check.
thx


----- Original Message -----
From: Willie Erasmus
To: cs@rc-expert.com
Cc: general@rc-expert.com ; [Edit: Removed other email addresses]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:55 AM
Subject: TranID-604194 & TranID-603920


Hi,

I've bought the T-rex 450SE Combo Kit with Electronics: TranID-604194 (2006-11-20) and my friend (Mari-Louise Theunissen) also bought a
T-rex 450SE Combo kit with Electronics: TranID-603920 (2006-11-08).

We've noticed that the battery charger that is included in the kit is a Li-ion charger and not a Li-polymer battery charger. The batteries (12C & 18C) included in the kit is Li-polymer batteries and can therefore not be charge with the Li-ion battery charger. This is a concern for us and we are therefore not happy with this transaction where the battery charger is not correctly supplied. Having a look at your website ( http://www.rc-expert.com/product-package.php?pid=281) I've found the following description on the T-rex 450SE Combo kit with Electronics:

1. At the beginning of the page:
11.1V Lithium Battery Charger 1


2. Later on that same page the description of the charger is given as
1 X 3 Cell Lipo Smart Charger (US$25 value)

3. And at the end of the page you described the charger as:
110-220V Smart Lipo charger

Is this three different descriptions for the same charger? Description number 2 is confusing buyers and gives the impression that this is a balanced charger by mentioning 1x3 Cell lipo smart charger. The other problem that arrises with this charger is that it's connector is a JST type connector and can't even fit the connectors on the batteries (18C & 12C Li-polymer).

We feel that your website has mislead us and orther future buyers in bying the kit with the wrong charger (Li-ion) instead of a Li-polymer charger. There is no way that a Li-ion charger can charger Li-polymer batteries correctly. The wrongly supplied charger will shorten and destroy the Li-polymer batteries and that this charger has the danger of causing a fire when connected to the Li-polymer batteries.

We have made a posting on the following site in order to give RC-Expert and other world-wide customers information regarding this wronly (Li-ion) supplied charger: http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=24614

We request that RC-Expert correct this problem as soon as possible.

Best Regards,

Willem Erasmus & Mari-Louise Theunissen

[Paul Hinz]

RC Expert is basically right but li-ion covers a lot of different types of batteries now days. Many of the newer li-ions like A123s and Molicel batteries are different voltages, also old li-ion cells normally are 3.6 volts per cell. The charger that was supplied in the combo will work it is a 12.6 volt charger at 0.5 amps. I agree with Bob though I would get a better charger and use Deans Ultra connectors. The supplied charger will take almost 4 hours to charge the 1800 and over 4 hours to charge the 2200.

For chargers I use both a AstroFlight 109 and a Great Planes Triton along with AstroFlight Blinky balancers. I know people in the club I belong to also are using the E-Flite Celectra and Blinky balancers and have not had any problems.

Paul

[RC Accessory]

Lets start here.

Li-Ion and Li-Poly are the same, except some Li-Ion are 3.6V while li-Poly is 3.7V per cell. In this case, they are not interchangable.

Li-Fe (A123 Systems) are 3.6V per cell and require their own charger.

As far as I know, there are only 4 A123 Systems compatible chargers availabe:

e-Station BC-8
e-Station 902
TME Extrema with latest software revision
FMA CellPro with latest software revision.

Not to bash the FMA product, but it is limited to 4S packs at a max charge rate of 3 amps. What makes the A123 cells so great is that they are 70C rated and can be charged at 10 amps!! 15 minute recharge at the field!

As far as connectors, Ultra Deans or Anderson Power Poles, only way to go. They can handle over 50 amps.

The Li-Poly packs you show use the Align connector on it for balancing. The e-Station chargers and balancers support that connector.

Hope you figure it all out. :)

RC Accessory
Auth US Bantam Importer

[Ligblou]

Thank you all for the information! Sorry for no reply from me, but I was on a business trip to Brazil.

RC-Accessory, you mentioned that the balance connector is the Align connector. Is this the same connector as on the Esky batteries, they sure look exactly the same? Will these batteries charge with the Esky 2&3 cell charger (just until I get a proper charger)? What about the wiring - how do I determine the balance connector wiring on the battery, and if they will fit a specific charger/balancer?

You also mentioned that the e-Station chargers/balancers support them - Which other batters (e.g. Apex, Align, etc...) use the same connectors and will work with the e-Station chargers/balancers?

I am still deciding on a charger/balancer. At my LHS I can find the e-Station 301 (not the DX), but they are quite expensive and then I need to add a balancer as well. Currently I am thinking of the FMA Cell Pro 4S. Is there any reason to buy the e-Station if I am only going to fly my T-Rex 450?

Thank you all - still learning... :wink:

[RC Accessory]

Thank you all for the information! Sorry for no reply from me, but I was on a business trip to Brazil.

RC-Accessory, you mentioned that the balance connector is the Align connector. Is this the same connector as on the Esky batteries, they sure look exactly the same? Will these batteries charge with the Esky 2&3 cell charger (just until I get a proper charger)? What about the wiring - how do I determine the balance connector wiring on the battery, and if they will fit a specific charger/balancer?

You also mentioned that the e-Station chargers/balancers support them - Which other batters (e.g. Apex, Align, etc...) use the same connectors and will work with the e-Station chargers/balancers?

I am still deciding on a charger/balancer. At my LHS I can find the e-Station 301 (not the DX), but they are quite expensive and then I need to add a balancer as well. Currently I am thinking of the FMA Cell Pro 4S. Is there any reason to buy the e-Station if I am only going to fly my T-Rex 450?

Thank you all - still learning... :wink:

I do believe the Esky is the same as the Align. I do not have an Esky to validate that, but I have see them listed together.

e-Station does have a balance board for the Align packs, up to 5S for the BC-5 charger or Pb-5 balancer. They are have an Align board for up to 6S for the P-6 balancer and 6S for the BC-8 charger.

The 301 model is different than the 301DX. The 301 was updated about 8 months ago to the 301DX. The DX has more features and functions, same price.

The CellPro is limited to 4S packs with a max charge rate of 3 amps. It only does Li-po and A123. It works well. The BC-5 is not that much more than the CellPro. The Align board for the CellPro is optional, plus add shipping. The BC-5 is $124.95 includes the Align board if you choose and shipping is free in the US. The CellPro works out to be about $88 while the BC-5 is $124.95.

The BC-5 can do up to 5S, 5 Amp charge rate, as well as Nicad, Nimh, and Lead acid. They both balance charge and work the same in this way. The BC-5 can also charge non balance tap lipo's where the CellPro cannot.

The choice is really if you want a dedicated lipo charger or a charger that has additional functionality.

In either case, you'll have a good charger.

Evan Chapkis
RC Accessory, Inc.
Auth US Bantam Importer

[HeliDan]

Does that power-pack style charger have the ability to overcharge the LiPos? In other words, is it smart enough to NOT overcharge the LiPos?

[RC Accessory]

Does that power-pack style charger have the ability to overcharge the LiPos? In other words, is it smart enough to NOT overcharge the LiPos?

Yes. There are several safety features built into the e-Station chargers.

All the e-Station chargers safely charge li-poly packs to 4.2V per cell. They also have the ability to terminate the charge via capacity limit, time limit, and temperature. The Temp proce is optional on certain models, included in others.

The BC-5 and BC-8 models have a built in lithium balancer. With these models, each cell is charged independantly of the other cells. Another feature is that each cells voltage will display on the screen. Another nice feature is that at anytime you see what the high and low voltage per cell was to see the max variation in cell voltages or what the imbalance was.

[HeliDan]

Yes. There are several safety features built into the e-Station chargers..

Ok. I could not tell from the photo provided, but have never seen all of those features in a power-pack style adapter/charger.

[RC Accessory]

Yes. There are several safety features built into the e-Station chargers..

Ok. I could not tell from the photo provided, but have never seen all of those features in a power-pack style adapter/charger.

I am not sure what you refer to a "power pack style adapter/charger"?

[HeliDan]

I am not sure what you refer to a "power pack style adapter/charger"?

If you look at the photos provided, the 'charger' is what I refer to a power-pack. A black box that plugs directly into the wall, with a cord from it.

[RC Accessory]

I am not sure what you refer to a "power pack style adapter/charger"?

If you look at the photos provided, the 'charger' is what I refer to a power-pack. A black box that plugs directly into the wall, with a cord from it.

My bad, the e-Station chargers are fully digital, charging systems not a wall wart charger. Here is a pic of the BC-5.

http://www.rcaccessory.com/ProductImages/Ban-BC5.jpg

[HeliDan]

OK. Got it. Thanx!