V-Stabi/V-Bar installation.

[loopzilla]

The DX7's are doing VERY well. I'm sending one to Bobby today to put it through the proverbial 'ringer'. We have one here in the store to play with as well, in a Rex 600, Logo 10, Logo 14, Ion-X, and my severely glitching Mini Joker. I hope it fixes the Joker.

I also wonder how much the sensor being out of perfect alignment will affect things. I agree wholeheartedly in principal that it needs to be as perfect as possible, and you guys have certainly made that happen.

However, the sensor is reporting essentially a numerical range to the software. This range can be a perfect +100 to -100, or an arbitrary +183 to -183, and still have the same effect in the software. As long as the alignment offset is not so great that the sensor is not allowed it's full range, something like +183 and -103, then the software doesn't care. It is my understanding that this is an inertial sensor, so it shouldn't have a range limitation at all (it should have a full 360 degrees in that axis), so it shouldn't make any difference. Interaction with the other two sensors in the same package would be the concern...

In fact, I would be more worried about the sensor being as close to the rotor blades as possible (eliminating the 'pendulum delay effect'), AND be as perfectly aligned to the rotor disc plane as possible. Yaw can be left arbitrary. Plumbing the sensor to the main shaft alone is only fixing one axis.

My reference for thought has been experience with other avionics, and where Andy and Thomas had their sensors mounted, but I could be way off these days...

[loopzilla]

Congrats Will! What is your setup?

[WillJames]

L14
Stretch parts to 600mm blades
V-Blades Mains and Tail Blades
Tango 45-07 12T Pinion.
Jazz 55
319, 9650's, 611/9256
10s1p EVO 3700 Pack
1800 RX pack and 6V Duralite Regulator/Stepdown

LOVING IT!! Going flying in a few minutes.

[loopzilla]

Great setup! Mine is very similar, but I am moving to the new Hacker A50-16S this week. Flew this morning and I am FINALLY learning a few new things in the air.

I really wonder why it has taken so long for the Mikado stuff to catch on. Sort of like Mac and PC I guess; once you have one, you never let it go. But, you need to own both to understand they both have a place.

Go Fly!

[loopzilla]

Got my V-Bar in the air today on the 14. Wow! The increased power is significant, even with a moderate power system.

Bobby spanked it a few hits, until I got too nervous, but it looks like we will need different configurations for different pilots. And, it was blowing a gusty 15-25 knots today, which made everything sketchy.

We need to poke around at the tail gain a bit, and massage a few more cyclic settings, but for a maiden flight it did quite well. I'm stoked, and will put a few more kits in the queue tomorrow!

[BobbySmith]

LOOPZILLA (Chandler )

Man you were killing me( Y ou are to low go higher hahah :twisted: 0 i tell you what though the power definatley was there couldnt belive it!!! We tweaked on his Vbar alittle @ the feild it still wasnt quite right for me as it didnt like the sudden stop maneuvers but Chandler was doing some fast FF wiht big loops ex... and man it was pretty awesome. The Cyclic was very fast and crisp

Cant wait to play wiht it some more!!
Bobby

[larryfl]

chandler ,

can you post where your settings are in the software?

also how did you mount the air sensor tubes so that they dont move at all???

thanks

[loopzilla]

I left my PC laptop at home (I only own a PC for programming avionics), so the settings I can remember changing from default are:

• I think I had to reverse the Aileron and Rudder sensors
• Make sure you use 'Standart-Digitalservo' for the tail servo, if you have anything but a S9251. I have a S9254, and it freaked out when I choose the S9251 setting.
• My servos were centered and swash adjusted, so I didn't need any 'neutral'.
• I had to set the travel limits for the tail servo, but left the neutral at 0.
• I increased, by hitting the 'more' button, the Collective Tail Torque Compensation by 5 clicks or so
• Decreased the Sensitivity Tail Gyro Settings
• Under 'Flight Parameters', I hit the 'Keeps Turning' button like 15 times each for Aileron and Elevator. My red indicator is now just above the mid-line.

Things we did notice are how much more sensitive I like the settings versus Bobby. For the way I fly, the high cyclic rates are perfect, but Bobby needed 70% DR and -30% Exponential to make it feel better.

Tonight I'll post some screen shots of my settings to be more comprehensive.

The only thing I don't like is the location of the inertial sensor, but this installation is only a shakedown before going to one if my IP3s. If the sensor is mounted higher, things become more accurate.

Some photos of the installation. I copied the way MrMel mounted the sensor unit, which works quite well.

[BobbySmith]

Keep in mind i was usingChandlers Multiplex that have never even touched before iam curious to see how much differant it will be on a dx7 or my 14mz

Bobby

[MrMel]

Here is my setup with the Vstabi & DX7 Spektrum


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/dx7/cimg0858.jpg
First a picture without the airsensor attached, Ive put the main receiver ontop of the VStabi system.


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/dx7/cimg0859.jpg
Ive returned to using BEC (Medusa), Main reason why I stopped using it was glitching, I hope that is loooong gone now.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/dx7/cimg0860.jpg
Here is how I mounted the second receiver, gonna range test it from every angle before I can tell if its Ok or not.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/dx7/cimg0862.jpg
With the airpressure sensor installed, I still test flight with and without it, gonna keep it for a while until Ive tested enough.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/dx7/cimg0863.jpg
My current fleet (minus a few that Ive lent out to friends)

Unfortunally it was raining sideways today (rain + 30-50 mph winds), so it was no idea even thinking of going outside today.
Flight-testing has to wait.


Gonna rewire stuff when Ive at been out in the backyard and done some spoolups, not possible today though.

[loopzilla]

Hehe Bobby! You were holding German engineering through and through!

We need to get together and set it up for you, but not to show how different our setting are. It's not about pilot ability, but about style of flying and personal preference. The point is to show how versatile the system really is. If it can handle a wide range of pilot style and stick preference, that is a very good thing.

There are so many options to dial in to a particular pilot, it is almost impossible to get it even close in one day without concerted effort.

[loopzilla]

Are you guys flying your systems much? I have around 10 flights on mine since installation, and the only thing I feel like I need to fix is the gyro 'gain'. I get the death wag after a hard piro moving into FFF.

But, this heli is freaking FAST! It was fast before, but now it is serious. I flew this morning, and felt like I was flying a pylon racer or something. It was taking up the whole field, and I really had to think about things before the moves were needed. You know how a race car sort of squats when it gets moving fast? That is sort of what it looks like when you keep adding pitch in FFF. It never changes altitude, just goes faster. Never had a heli feel like that...

Cyclic is scary, and I'm afraid I'll eventually have a boom strike. The heli finally flips in place for me, something I could never really do. If I could just get my pitch management up to par, and quit blowing out, I will be stoked.

Just dropped the DX7 in mine tonight for the morning ritual. Will see how that changes things.

[BobbySmith]

Chandler you will love the Radio!!


Bobby

[loopzilla]

Bobby,

We flying Sunday? Wanna get it set up right for you on the DX7.

[BobbySmith]

Sent you a pm

[WillJames]

Looks like in the photos above from Fredrik, you are running a second main gear and a different tail drive pinion. Do you know the part numbers right off hand for the parts to upgrade the tail drive like this?

Thank you in advance.

[MrMel]

2412 is the 96T main gear.
2487 is the mod 1 tail gear.

You need to mod the frame a bit, you need the boom to slide a bit more forward then regular, so you need to open up the holes in the frame a little.

If you want to run the 138T main gear for tail as well, its partnumber 3001 you need for the tail gear.

- Fredrik

[Lorents]

While fixing my Logo 10 this weekend I found that the cable from the gyro sencor to the Vbar was kind of loose and would fall out if I came near it. I have now used a drop of CA to make sure it wont come loose in flight.

If you have a Vbar it might be a good idea to check this out.

Loopzilla, I had the "death wag" (cool name :D) too on mine and had to turn down the gain to get rid of it. Yesterday I tried to shorten down the servo arm on the tail servo (from almost 16mm to 14mm) and now it worked great on the default gain.

Here is a video from the second flight yesterday. Nothing fancy since I am still trying to get used to the DX7...
http://www.lojal.no/userfiles/logo_10_vbar.wmv

[WillJames]

Nice flying!! I am going to have to break down and get a Logo 10. It looks like to much fun!! Looks a little more nimble than the 14 seems to roll faster.

I hot glue in my 611 plugs, had a sensor come loose before but not for a couple of years thank god.

[theLane]

Nice video. Thanks for that.

[Daniel Jetschin]

It's only the Vbar what makes that 10 roll and flip so fast :roll: It's smoother with paddles..

[Lorents]

Yeah, the Vbar makes it really nimble. You actually decide how much cyclic you want by adjusting the ATV on the aileron and elevator channel, just like you do with the HH gyro on the tail. The manual suggests starting out with ATV set to 60 - of course I missed that part and went with the default ATV of 100 :) On this video it was reduced to 85.

Another difference is that the cyclic seems to be equal in both directions. The Vbar Logo 10 is really cool - flies like a 90, silent like a trex and fits in the trunk of your car :D

[MrMel]

On this video it was reduced to 85



What hole are using on the servo arms?

Im using 100 ATV on 3rd hole (futaba 9650)

[Lorents]

Its probably the same hole. I am using the CF mikado arms with the hole that gives 17mm distance from the center.

There is one thing that bothers me though... If I give max negative pitch + max left or right aileron and tilts the helicopter the servo arms will hit the casing of the 9650's. I am not sure if this is a problem in the air but I am thinking about trying the Dubro arms that makes the link go clear of the casing...

[loopzilla]

Lorents,

The DuBro arms flex horribly, and I changed my arms from the DuBro to the Mikado CF arms at the field yesterday. I was getting interaction from the servos in a piro climbout, and it went away completely with the stiffer arms. I have the JR servos, so the case is a little different. I kept thinking V-Bar was doing something weird, but the arms fixed a lot of my issues. Skip the DuBro and go straight to Futaba aluminum if the Mikado CF arms aren't working. I have some here if you would like me to measure them for you.

However, I had been using the MIK 1004 Pivot Bolts as the ball links on the servo arms (8mm), but will need to go down to the MIK1003 (6mm) long ones to clear the servo frame mounting bolts a little better.

I am using the middle hole on the Mikado CF arms.

And, I'll move my tail servo arm in a bit as well to see what happens. Thanks for that info, as my gain was getting pretty low, but still holding.

YES, the roll rate on the 14 with V-Bar is absolutely insane if you open up the travel. It rolls like a 3D foamie on high rates! I can finally roll and flip it in place now, and I imagine it really livens up the L10. I'll put my second V-Bar on a 10 later this week...woo hoo!

Thanks guys!