V-Stabi/V-Bar installation.

[MrMel]

Today was the day, my V-Stabi system arrived!

Sooo, what do you get for $1200 (the price is for the 3 axis system)
You get this:

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0782.jpg
A nice little wooden box


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0783.jpg
I also ordered the Logo 14 Head upgrade


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0784.jpg
Opening the wooden box, and you get a manual, something that looks like a receiver, a sensor and a air-flow sensor.

Thats all?

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0785.jpg
Nah, under the nice cover there was some more items.


So, lets start with re-building the head setup for my Logo 14.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0786.jpg
Manual is easy to follow as usual, however, it didnt say how long the pitch link-arms should be.


Lets see what we got.


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0787.jpg
http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0788.jpg
The head it self is in metal, only the link-arm guides are in plastic.


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0789.jpg
So, here is my old head mounted.



http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0790.jpg
I removed the head and started to tear it down, Parts that I needed from the old head to the new head was Blade grips, Spindle, bearrings, however new o-rings are included in the upgrade kit.



http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0791.jpg
Here is the leftover



http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0792.jpg
New head is being built.



http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0793.jpg
As stated earlier, I didnt know how long the link-arms length should be so I guesstimated..
I had to use some white lithium grease to get the new o-rings into the head (I normally always use that anyway)



http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0794.jpg
Here is the new head completed.


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0795.jpg
New head mounted on the heli.



Time to mount some electronics

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0798.jpg
First of all the trusty gy611 have to go away.
You keep the servo, but the amplifier and sensor is not needed anymore.
(this is for the 3 axis v-stabi system)



Next you look at the cables which should go between the Vstabi system and the receiver, then you realize you dont have that many options at all.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0799.jpg
The cables are short.


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0800.jpg
So I mounted it close to the receiver.



http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0801.jpg
I mounted the sensor at the old gyro plate.
(I thought popped up in the head, what if the flybar hits it in a crash.... ooohh, yeah right, no problem)


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0802.jpg
Next I needed to bend the air-flow tubes, one should point forward and one backwards, they will adjust the pitchyness in FF and BF.
Just heat them and bend carefully, when you have the correct form, wait until they cool.


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0803.jpg
I mounted them like this, (according to manual), key is that they should be too close to moving part, nor too close to canopy, else turbolence can interfere.


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0805.jpg
Connected the airflow sensor using some fuel tubing (not included in the kit)


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0804.jpg
Here is everything connected.
Note: Its possible to mount Sensors backwards (on the VStabi unit), Manual dont state how it should be mounted, and the connectors allow both ways, did that, nothing bad happened.
Phew, It just dont work if they are wrong.


I never installed the CD, I downloaded the latest version directly from the net.

So, the big moment.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0807.jpg
Well, if this is the future, take a close look at this picture, because this is how you trim your heli in the future :)



And here the problem starts.
I got SEVERE interference on my Futaba G3 DP5014 Receiver, servo worked very jerky and so on, Ive seen this before when I used UBEC and know its not good.
It can be the AirFlow sensor that I mounted on top of the receiver, but I cant be sure yet, so I change receiver, DP149 is less sensitive to local interference.
I gonna range check this before flight, REALLY carefully.



http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0808.jpg
You need to reset the Radio to a simple function (no mixing).
After getting all the servo's working in the correct order and so on, I used this swash leveling tool just to get the swash fairly level.


Servo Center is different since I changed to the VStabi system.
One change here, with the V-stabi system the cyclic was maxed out, on the Logo the geometry is a bit off, so I changed the link-arms to use one more inner hole on the servo arms.
(Ive read others do this), Dont know yet until I fly, but I think the cyclic will be more then enough anyway.


Ok, lets check pitch.
http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0809.jpg
Take your pitch guage and align it with your level flybar, Ehhh, Yeah right.


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0810.jpg
Correction, take your pitch guage and adjust it to SOMETHING level.
In this case its the pitch link-arm guides.



Pitch range was off the chart, like +-20, I used the end points on the pitch range to adjust them, I could have used the computer also.
However, my center (zero pitch) was off, old school says to adjust the linkarms so they are 90 degrees, yeah right, no mixing arms...
So I adjusted that in the computer, now have +-12 degrees, give or take.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/vstabi/Cimg0812.jpg
Here is the finished setup


You need to test the directions of the sensor, first tilt the heli forward, this should make the swash tilt a little backwards, if not you have to reverse the sensor (in the computer)
Same thing for aileron.

Then I tested the airflow, just blowing in the pipe a little and sure enough the swash moved.


Thats everyting for today, meetings all day tomorrow, but I will try to get some flight testing
With flight-testing there is certain steps to go through.
I must get back to that range issue for certain, but for now, on the bench, everything looks good.

I gonna come back a little later with some screenshots of the settings in the computer program.

EDIT: Updated with some flight testing.

First test-flight completed

After checking and re-checking the gyro sensors (if they work in the wrong direction, you have lost your heli, because you cannot counteract any movement.)

So, the big moment.
I didnt bother to go to the field (short of time) so I decided to take the initial testing in my backyard.

Last thing I read in the manual before I went out was "Heli cant be trimmed on the ground, it needs to be in the air for all functions to work properly"
Thats like saying Testdrive this car in 100 mph and THEN test if the breaks works :)

Spoolup went great, its actually more stable on the ground then with flybar/paddels, because the swash is apperently still working somewhat (constantly correcting/moving)
I lowered the HS a bit for the first test.

Up she went, superstable in hover, tail was creeping slowly though.
You can trim on the radio, but when you land, reset the trim and re-trim on the computer, else next time you start the heli, its zero gonna be where the radio is at and you need to
re-trim again.

Manual states that you should hover a bit up, move for/aft cyclic in a rapid movement and watch how the heli stops, either it strikes back or it continues turning.
When I did that the heli scared the living daylight out of me, the stop was like hitting a brick wall, if you tilt the heli forward using paddles/flybar you get a soft stop, this is WAY more
exact.

However, you can trim this by hitting the "Strikes back" in the computer a few times if you want a softer stop.
Same thing goes for aileron.

Initial flight was 100% success, after trimming the tail, eased up the stop a bit it was flying beutiful, however, its SOOOOOOO much more exact, I not kidding,
Some expo might be needed in the beginning to get used to it, its hard to describe, but if you think your old heli is controlled by some soft wires that stretch a bit, this is controlled by a iron rod..

Because the swash is always "helping" you, even hover, descends etc is more exact,
For sample: I have this issue with Radix blades that if you descend slow while flying backwards, the blades going into the wind gets grip while the blades coming in vortex doesnt, heli tilts to the right.
(Forward flight its the opposite)

But because the swash (sensors) is constantly watching the levels, the help against this, so the affect is less noticable.


I suspect some people will call this "cheating", same thing happened when HH gyros came, why use it when you can fly in Rate mode or without a gyro at all...
But this is the future, no doubt about it.


Worth the money? Cant tell yet, looking good so far, havent gotten to fly 3D yet (too many meetings today, hopefully tomorrow)

Have also got an answer on the G3 issue, it should work, so I will try that tomorrow.

- Fredrik

[jamesotron99]

Looks awesome. Man, I wish it wasn't so damn expensive :)

[Daniel Jetschin]

Dude nice, but you have to mount the balls more inward on these servo horns, you don't neet much throw at the swash at all. Otherwise you lose torque wich you really need there.

[MrMel]

Already moved them one hole inwards, that was what mikado recommended.

[BobbySmith]

Very cool cant wait to get one

Bobby

[misskimo]

hey , I use the hole that will max out what pitch you want to use . so you can get the full throw and torque out of the servo , other wise , you will stall out the servos in hard 3D

[MrMel]

Added some first-flight test info.

[lowflyer101]

any video yet? :D

[MrMel]

Complete, Utterly, Devestating, Chaotic, Catastrophic, Crash.

Nothing to do with the VStabi, it was flying fine until the powersupply for the Receiver creept out of the receiver.

ARGH, TOTALLY MY FAULT!, Last thing I did was to replace the doublesided tape under the receiver because it was almost loose, I stretched the cables without checking it afterwards...

Its my worst crash ever, lucky though, the Vstabi survived.

Dont even know if I gonna take some pictures, just seeing the depth of the hole in the ground made me call Dave at Revolutions and told him to fedex a new kit.

Canopy (2 layer paint and clear coated) was about 40-50 pieces, that was a clear indication... or to see the main bearring holders shattered into million pieces?, servo cables wripped out of the broken servos?

Its bad, REALLY bad.
New kit arrives before 6pm tomorrow...

[jmiceli11]

So how did the G3 receiver preform? Any glitching issues?

Sorry about the loss.

John

[MrMel]

No issues (in the short flight) with the G3.
It seems it REALLY dont like when the PC is connected, thats why it acted strange.

The full carnage


VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0813.jpg


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0814.jpg
Dont look that bad from a distance..

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0815.jpg
Somethin is missing, there SHOULD be a block there holding the main bearring.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0816.jpg
Blade grip..


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0817.jpg
One of 8 or so fractures on the frame


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0819.jpg
One of 8 or so fractures on the frame


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0820.jpg
The weakest point breaks..


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0822.jpg
Frame carnage


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0823.jpg
The Cause of all this.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0824.jpg
The first thing that impacted was actually the blade, thats why bearrings blocks are gone.


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0825.jpg
Bent spindle maybe?


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0826.jpg
Someone want a servo?

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0827.jpg
Another view..

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0828.jpg
To the left, how a bearring should look, to the right, is how mine looked..


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/crash/2/cimg0829.jpg
Yep, the spindle was slightly bent.

[WillJames]

Oh man, sorry to see the carnage, that is a bad crash alright. :(

The V-Bar head sounds really interesting for sure!!

[Finless]

OMG..... Man that is a nasty crash! NO..... NOT THE FRAMES! Eeek and a servo to boot :(

I am CRINGING...... :(

Bob

[loopzilla]

Wow, I think that has to be one of the worst crashes I have seen on a 14, and I've been around a few! I have never seen the top bearing block break like that, taking out the servos as well.

So how do you think the V-Bar components survived the crash? I've been wondering how the inertial sensor package will handle impacts.

I have my V-Bar systems arriving tomorrow, and will follow your lead. My plan is to get hardcore empirical data on any increased efficiencies, hopefully before the weekend is out. Trick is going to be how to make it work with other flight avionics...

Keep us posted on the rebuild.

[MrMel]

The Vstabi system is good for a 2000 G crash(!), I talked with Ulrich about it and got some good tips how to change my setup in the new build to make it even better.

Mount the sensor inside the frame, should give better results.
Also check that your servo's endpoints are the same (not in the radio, but mechanically) else you can adjust it under Expert settings.

Fedex should arrive today with the new kit, I hope.

[theLane]

That's it, I'm selling one of my four kids to raise the money for one of these systems :)

[Lorents]

Mount the sensor inside the frame, should give better results.
Interesting! The bottom of the frame isnt excactly 90 degrees to the main shaft so I was thinking of putting it on a gyro mount on the boom like you did, but if Uli sais its better inside the frame I guess thats what I'll do then :)

That's it, I'm selling one of my four kids to raise the money for one of these systems
Totally understandable :D

[MrMel]

Kit arrived today as Fedex said, so im building tonight :)

[loopzilla]

Hi Lorents,

I don't have my systems yet (maybe in an hour or so), but I am almost positive you can still mount the sensor on the bottom plate. Then, you would adjust any offset in the vertical position (or horizontal) in the software. In fact, most systems like this automatically calibrate themselves to 'neutral' much like a gyro does when it initializes.

I'm curious if the heli really needs to be sitting level when you power it up, or if the 'neutral' is in permanent memory from programming. MrMel?

[Lorents]

Hmm, might as well ask Ulrich on the Vstabi forum :)

Fredrik, if you manage to have a flying bird tomorrow I will be extreemly impressed!!

[misskimo]

the 2 axis on the swash is non HH , so they will center , the Tail is HH ,
Cool , got the heli ,

Tony

[loopzilla]

Lorents,

You putting the V-Bar on a 10 or 14? I think I remember Andi R's sensor was located in front of the Rx on the top tray, on his 14. I don't think the back plate is long enough to do that on the 10.

[MrMel]

Anyone know a good way to see if 3 servo's match or if they are off (endpoints)?

I have 6 servo's which I know at least 2 is "off", hard to eyeball it though.
I was thinking of taping a pen to an extended servo arm... anyone know a easier way?

[loopzilla]

MrMel, is there no way to set the endpoints and rate in the software?

The only thing I can think of is to do more or less what you suggest. Take each servo and hold it in the frame on one side (same spot for all three). Attach a piece of CF rod or tube (or a pencil) to the horn, and give the servo full deflection. Then, just measure the distance between the top of the boom, for example, to the CF rod you attached. The longer the rod the better.

I have a servo tester here that you can mount up to 4 servos in, and you connect the all the double servo horns together with linkage rods. Then, you get a readout on the current each servo is pulling. When each servo is at it's endpoint, if any servo is out of 'phase' it will pull more or less amps. This is how we set up tandem and ganged servos for percent sized airplanes.

Problem is, there really isn't much you can do about the servo if one is off. All you can do is try to match a few servos together, or use endpoint adjustments to limit all three to the lowest common denominator. Nothing short of some electrical engineering will fix an offset in the speed the servo travels.

CARVEC has the ability to adjust each servo independently, for both travel and rate. I imagine V-Bar has something similar, but am not sure.

[MrMel]

Yep, I can adjust in the software, its just I know 3 is OK, didnt mark which ones though, doh :)

Always easier with any interactions if I can start with a good "set".

I gonna buy one of those servo testers for the future.