PDA

View Full Version : to any one thinking about getting a blade 400 check this out and book mark it.


Pages : [1] 2

dannylightning
07-10-2010, 01:52 PM
these are settings straight from the folks at horizon to make it easier to fly if you are just starting out with it. . i might set mine up like this and see how it goes.

IMO these settings completely suck
with these settings I had few near crash experiences, had to set it down quite a few times, it just seemed too sluggish, i went over this video 3 times to make sure my settings were as they suggested and they were,

i went back to the original settings and added +20% expo in the D/R and expo menu and left every thing else bone sock and it is flying great again, hovering threw full battery packs with ease. i think sensitive sticks are much better on this heli is is plenty stable for the sticks to be sensitive.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBXxAnSZWuc

dannylightning
07-11-2010, 09:30 AM
bump, don't care if you reply, just want to bump it so every one gets a chance to see it. if you ever get a 400 this might be of big help at least till you get used to the 400 after that i would go back to the original settings.

Luvlite
07-11-2010, 01:59 PM
Great find! For folks looking to move on from an SR it would be a good exercise to learn why each of these settings helps stabilize the 400. For example, increasing the throttle curve gives higher headspeed which is more stable. Also suggests that a replacement motor for the 400 could be of slightly higher kv or that pinion selection can be made to increase headspeed.

Although the stock SR tx removes options it also takes care of a lot of these things so people who are learning don't accidentally increase their learning curve by getting this stuff wrong.

Luvlite
07-11-2010, 02:08 PM
The travel adjust change to 80% is interesting. I wonder if there was some risk of servo binding at the extreme ends.

dannylightning
07-11-2010, 02:23 PM
the travel adjust makes the sticks less sensitive i think, and than you got expo on top of that. i don't think i like these settings, i just went out and flew with them. my battery died faster, probably the extra head speed and it was a little too sluggish, almost wrecked because of that.

i think i am going to go back to the original settings and only use some expo on it like i set it in the first place. it seemed to fly better before. IMO

lazor 22
07-11-2010, 02:27 PM
Travle adjust affects how far the servo will travel at full stick that way. Anything over 100% send the full in some. Atleast that is what I think. I'm probably wrong though.

dannylightning
07-11-2010, 02:33 PM
before i did this it felt more like flying one of the heli's on my sim, not it feels like flying a big sr, the way the SR is when you pull it out of the box and use the stock TX with some flybar weights out.

Luvlite
07-11-2010, 03:14 PM
Travel adjust is range/distance the channel will move. The way I think of expo is how linear the stick response is. On the 8103 tx this is easier to observe as it shows you the curve as you add expo. 0 expo is a straight line. The more expo you add, the more of an "s" it looks with response at center stick not being as high as it would be at the extremes.

This has the effect of softening "twitchiness" around center stick.
New pilots tend to oversteer and expo kind of prevents them from getting into trouble by banging away on the sticks. An experienced pilot would describe this as "mushiness" in the controls.

dannylightning
07-11-2010, 07:25 PM
well travel adjust is like that, but it should make the sticks less sensitive, you are moving the stick just as far but the servo now has less movement. so if you are moving the stick half way over, you will not have as much throw at half stick at 80% as you would at half stick with 100% servo movement.

this just seems logical to me, and those new settings really seemed to dumb the heli down big time.


i put my settings back to stock and i think it flys much much better. did not even come close to crashing, when i changed it to the new settings all i am going to say is thank god for the training gear.

lazor 22
07-11-2010, 08:38 PM
I guess it would spread it over more and since it has less then it is really spread out so yea I guess it would make it less sensitive. And over 100 would push it in.

Luvlite
07-11-2010, 10:02 PM
It is correct that increasing the travel adjust will also increase sensitivity as well. This is due to the same amount of stick movement resulting in a larger deflection.

Bob O
07-12-2010, 09:29 AM
This thread was moved here from the SR forum, as the topic and content of the original post clearly deal with the B400.

whoanelly
07-12-2010, 09:46 AM
It is correct that increasing the travel adjust will also increase sensitivity as well. This is due to the same amount of stick movement resulting in a larger deflection.

Messing with the travel adjust can throw yur swashplate out of level,,id leave it alone and only use for leveling swash,,unless you can get it where u want then check yur swash at low,mid and high for level. Expo is all u should need to make the heli easier to fly,,if this isn't working then id suggest more sim time. Good luck to you..

Dazhim
07-12-2010, 02:23 PM
+1 :Bang

dannylightning
07-12-2010, 03:12 PM
This thread was moved here from the SR forum, as the topic and content of the original post clearly deal with the B400.

the reason i put in in the SR thread is, there are alot of guys that are eventually going to upgrade to something bigger, and some of them are going to be upgrading to something bigger soon. if they decide they want to move up to the 400, as i just did.

i figured this would be useful to the people on the SR thread that might end up deciding to get the 400.

dannylightning
07-12-2010, 03:15 PM
Messing with the travel adjust can throw yur swashplate out of level,,id leave it alone and only use for leveling swash,,unless you can get it where u want then check yur swash at low,mid and high for level. Expo is all u should need to make the heli easier to fly,,if this isn't working then id suggest more sim time. Good luck to you..


i really don't know HH was thinking when they decided to put these settings out there. maybe some people will like them and if it works for you great, but i find it made the heli very hard to control.

Bob O
07-12-2010, 09:00 PM
the reason i put in in the SR thread is, there are alot of guys that are eventually going to upgrade to something bigger, and some of them are going to be upgrading to something bigger soon. if they decide they want to move up to the 400, as i just did.

i figured this would be useful to the people on the SR thread that might end up deciding to get the 400.I understood your intention by posting in the SR forum. If E-flite had it's way, everyone would start out with an mCX and work their way up to a B400 before going to something bigger or better. But there is no standard progression when going to a larger heli. Just because you went a certain route doesn't mean a bunch of others will take the same route.

Whatever heli a person considers for their next bird, they will most likely look for information regarding that heli in its particular forum, not the forum for the heli they're going to make the step up from.

But really what it comes down to is threads need to be posted in the forum that the topic is specific to. IMO, if your thread has any merit, the B400 forum is where it will be the most helpful.

lazor 22
07-13-2010, 12:43 AM
Danny, you seem to like your settings. Anyone think they would work in a T-REx 450 Sport? If so, I would love to have them since I would much rather set up my Tx less then what I want then more. These settings might be fine too.

Jasmine2501
07-13-2010, 12:07 PM
It is correct that increasing the travel adjust will also increase sensitivity as well. This is due to the same amount of stick movement resulting in a larger deflection.

It is not as simple as that when it comes to helicopters - there is a lot of mixing going on. Changing the travel limit will change the range of motion allowed for that servo (only the one servo) - the effect this may have on the flight can vary. In general, you don't want to use the travel adjustment on the swash servos, except in the case where one of them is moving too far and pushing the swash out of level at extremes. See the Finless video about CCPM interactions for more info about how to use travel adjust on the cyclic servos.

In the video, Mark adjusts the aileron, elevator and rudder dual rates, and sets expo on those as well. He incorrectly refers to this as a travel adjust - it's not.

Then, he goes into the travel adjust, and adjusts the rudder to 80% - this is a very different thing from changing the travel adjust on a cyclic servo. The effect of this adjustment requires a little knowledge about how gyros work. It does not actually limit the travel of the servo in this case - it limits the turn rate that the gyro will attempt to cause at full rudder stick. The travel of the servo itself is controlled by the gyro.

fast400
07-13-2010, 02:20 PM
adjusting the travel on my rudder channel to 80% diffenetlly limits my tail servos travel, just tried it before i posted. i run Jr gyros on both my helis, so this may be why.

following horizons settings will cost you money, the head speed is way to slow and the pitch is way to high. this puts to much stress on a already to small esc, i smoke 3 stock 25a esc trying to do it horizons way.

Jasmine2501
07-13-2010, 03:18 PM
adjusting the travel on my rudder channel to 80% diffenetlly limits my tail servos travel, just tried it before i posted. i run Jr gyros on both my helis, so this may be why.


No, what that means is you're not running in heading hold mode. Also, you can not tell what a gyro will do in the air, by observing it on the bench - the behavior in air is different.

In rate mode, the servo and stick position are locked together, and the servo will only move away from that position a little bit, to compensate for changes in the piro rate. A heading hold gyro moves the servo wherever it wants to. It tries to keep the actual piro rate matched up with the requested piro rate (stick position) - and it will correct for any differences, as well as correcting for errors which add up over time. So, while the rate gyro will correct a spinning helicopter if the stick is in the middle, it won't correct the accumulated error and move the tail back to where it was.

Regardless - if you're not able to get the servo to move all the way, by just holding the rudder stick a little to one side, then you are not in heading hold mode. See this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7avubv69LGU

dannylightning
07-13-2010, 05:15 PM
lazor, if you want those settings i will give them to you but i really have no idea if the pitch and throttle curves will be acceptable to use with that 450. i am not even sure those are good for my 400, so i wont list those unless you really want them.


all of my stick controls feel great.

DR and expo menu all set to 100% and positive 20% expo,

travel adjust menu
thro, 100, alie 100, elev 100, rudd 90, gyro 100, pitch 100

sub trim all 0

gyro- both set to positive 66.5 gain.

swash mix menu

negative 75 aile
negative 75 elev
+85 pitch

xluckynumber7x
07-13-2010, 09:43 PM
OP: I totally agree with you...

Those settings sucked for me too. I only have had a mcx2 and a B400 so I made a pretty big jump. At first I was having some trouble as the stock settings were a little too touchy for me to get the B400 up and stable. Of course the only experience I had with a heli up to that point was a few hours with the mcx2 that I got about 3.5 wks ago....

So after my first tipover on a landing I decided to see if I could dummy it up a little and found Horizon's video on YT. I tried it but then the controls seemed so sluggish it wasn't even funny. I figured all those settings were doing was masking the problem which was that I hadn't learned the finese and hand / eye coordination it takes to operate this heli.

What made the difference for me in the end was picking up Phoenix, not changing the settings. Now I can hover in a few different orientations in real life due to the hours of practice in Phoenix, not dummying up the settings in the tx.

Jasmine2501
07-13-2010, 10:44 PM
So after my first tipover on a landing I decided to see if I could dummy it up a little and found Horizon's video on YT. I tried it but then the controls seemed so sluggish it wasn't even funny. I figured all those settings were doing was masking the problem which was that I hadn't learned the finese and hand / eye coordination it takes to operate this heli.
.

Pretty much yes - it's designed to make your mistakes less of a problem. The down side is, if you want precision, it's hard to get it. Some people benefit from this and some people don't - that's why with planes, we sometimes start people with a 3-channel trainer or we use low rates.

I have a friend who was having a lot of trouble just learning to hover his Trex 450 - but he was really determined, and had been crashing and fixing it for a whole summer and still couldn't really hover it. I had taught him all the proper setup and everything, so that wasn't the problem. The problem was the helicopter was just too fast for him - when it started moving, rolling or whatever, it happened too fast for him - NOT too soon, too fast.

So what he needed was a helicopter with immediate response, but less of it - like a plane on low rates. So, what I did was, I used the three flight modes in his DX7 to create three different "normal" modes to fly with, each with increasing speed of response. With increased rates, I also increased the expo, but never put it over 35 on any channel. I used different throttle and pitch curves as well.

Over the next few weeks, he got to the point where he was mostly using the "hard mode" and just using the mushy mode for landing and take off. Now he's starting on upright orientations. So for him, this kind of setting really helped, but I don't think it would have helped, if he didn't have the option to switch into a more aggressive mode. So if you use these settings, don't use them all the time - set up a way to switch back and forth, and make it your goal to learn to fly with high throttle curves and full rates.

lazor 22
07-13-2010, 10:46 PM
Jasmine, do you think the Stock B400 setting would work with a T-Rex 450?