What to BUY

[TargetG]

Hi Guys,

I have experience in heli both electric and nitro. I have been thinking on buying a gas heli. I own my zenoah 230RC ready to go version 2004 that has more power (4HP). I've seen spectra G and Vario Helis , but I would like a recommendation about this, and if you have any other choice of heli. Also I will fly FAI style and maybe mild 3D.

THX

Leon G :)

[Gyan]

You won't find better support than the Bergen line. (I have 3). I'm sure they're all comparable in flight characteristics though.

[Tom Fiddler]

The 230 RC will only fit a Vario Heli.
I have an Acrobatic and really like it

[TargetG]

ok guys lets forget the engine, I´ll buy whatever the kit required

Leon G

[PaulH]

Leon,

This question comes up about every other month. If you search the forums, you'll find a lot of different opinions. The short version is this: There is no "bad" gasser. It really depends on what you want to do with it.

Bergen, in my opinion, makes the best general purpose gasser. I will admit that I'm a bit biased since I own two of them. They will accept a stock G26 engine with no trouble. The frames are designed to absorb much of the vibrations this engine is known to have, meaning that you don't need to buy a more expensive modified engine to have a good time. The Intrepid Gasser will do pretty much everything you ask of it, but it is heavy. Aerobatics tend to be slow and graceful, not fast and nervous. Customer support is awesome! I don't know of many companies where I can call and B.S. with the owner for 45 minutes.

Century is the cost leader at the low end with the Predator. You can buy a kit with a stock G231 for under $1k. However the parts quality may be suspect. To bring a Predator up to the level of what the other companies sell, you really have to spring for the Carbon SE version. Even then there are a few other upgrades that need to be made. Do not use a G26. If you need more power, buy a modified (Toxic, Hanson) G231 engine. Customer support is somewhat lacking. They have improved, but people still complain.

Miniature Aircraft really focused on weight reduction with the Spectra-G. It will do all of the aerobatics that you could ever want. It will accept a G231, but MA recommends that you use a Toxic modified engine for more power and less vibrations. Do not put a G26 in. Customer support is good, but quite often they are waiting for parts to be machined by third party vendors, causing the famous, "they should be in stock in two weeks." comments that you'll see on the forums.

Vario is most famous for their body kits. You can build scale models of just about any helicopter that you like. The pod-and-boom models are top-notch. Many think they are heavy pigs. They may never do aerobatics like a Spectra-G, but they are very, very smooth. This is due to the use of the G230RC engine. The compression is a little different and the flywheel is much lighter and better balanced than on the "normal" G231 or G26. Joe Howard, the owner of Vario USA, is a great guy to talk to. He has been in the industry for a long time and knows his stuff. He is located right here in Massachusetts.

Since I have no interest in becoming the next Youngblood or Szabo, the weight of a Bergen or Vario is not an issue for me. If you like mad 3D, look at the Spectra-G. Talk with Tom Fiddler who replied above. He has probably flown all of these models and could give you an honest opinion of the differences. But remember, it is just that: an opinion. You may find a different model that is more suitable to you personally.

My final suggestion is to go to your local field and see what people there fly. I am the only Bergen flyer within 100 miles. I have had to teach myself everything on it and have had to call Chris at Bergen R/C more times than I care to admit. He has always been friendly and helpful in spite of some of my dumb questions. You would have a much easier go of it if you can get help from others at your field.

[DebianDog]

I have had no power issues with my Hanson modified G26 but will wholeheartedly agree with "Customer support is somewhat lacking" with the Century line. The manuals suck too. I also can't find a HD clutch to same my life. ALWAYS OUT OF STOCK http://www.heli-world.com/detail.aspx?ID=4148

[TargetG]

Thanks to all of you for your kind opinions, I'm going for Vario Or Bergen. Customer service is very important. Also I have been running 1/5 scale cars and boats, all of them gas powered. Carbon fiber is not good w/gas engines with that much vibration. Aluminum or fiberglass is very safe. I won't do too heavy 3D, maybe FAI. And I like to know that I will get my calls answer. I was trying to find Spectras on stock and I was not lucky.

THX again

Leon G :wink:

[Tom Fiddler]

PaulH pretty much summed up the world.Like I said I am loving my Acrobatic.
I worked on and flew the Bergen and it is top notch.
I am a REALLY big fan of the 230RC engine. In stock form it is the best engine Zenoah makes IMHO
I also built the second "homemade" Predator Gasser to ever fly ( converted the 90 a year before the "GAS" kit was offered)
Like paul said " there are no bad Gassers"
I guess I need to produce a light 230RC powered Gasser :mrgreen:
Bergen Customer service is always what the others are judged by.
On the other hand Joe Howard at east coast scale heli's has treated me great.
So far my Acrobatic has not required any customer service.
Fill it and Fly it.
Money wise the Bergen is a better choice.
Oh I am working on a fuel injection system for the Zenoah engine...but don't tell anyone :shock:

[PaulH]

Leon: Bergen is the only airframe in the list that uses G-10 fiberglass for the frames instead of carbon fiber or aluminum. That eliminates most of the RFI sources. That is also what absorbs a lot of the vibrations as there is a little "give" that does not exist in the CF or Al birds.

Either the Acrobatic or the Intrepid would be ideal for FAI. Being large and heavy gives them a huge advantage in stability, but both brands have enough power in reserve to haul ass when required. You can do 3D, but not as fast as a nitro bird. Aerobatics tend to be larger and slower, which is not a bad thing. It teaches you collective management and in my opinion, is more graceful.

[BeyondLimits135]

Another helicopter option is made by Airstar International. Their helicopters are made here in the USA out of nearly all metal parts. It has an all metal rotor head and a metal tail gear box that come standard and you get to choose the color of the metal for your helicopter. Carbon fiber main and tail blades come standard as well and they have been very successful with those blades on their helis.

They only sell their helicopters fully built so when you get your helicopter in about 2-3 weeks, it shows up ready to fly. The good thing is that you knwo the helicopter is fully operational as they also test fly each heli before it leaves their facility.

These helicopters can do complete 3-D as well as act as a trainer or even as a camera ship. You can use the G230RC you have in their helicopters as well or even step up to the 260 for added performance.

These helicopters are without a doubt, about the best you can buy anywhere. Hence why they are used extensively in the aerial photography and motion picture industry. You can see a video of their helicopter on their website. I highly recommend checking them out before making a final decision as they are affordable to buy, as well as for replacement parts.

Adam

[Tom Fiddler]

"They only sell their helicopters fully built so when you get your helicopter in about 2-3 weeks, it shows up ready to fly."
Then why do they list the Mongoose kit for $1649?
I really don't want anyone but me building MY gasser.
How much is one to my door with the 230RC engine? (Zip 22656)
Adam:
If you really believe in these..please answer my questions truthfully, I delt with this company 4 years ago and I can only hope they have come around.
I won't go into the details, But lets just say it was not a good time.

[DebianDog]

Adam,

SO MANY PEOPLE have gotten burned by Airstar in the past I doubt you will find many people here with that helicopter... no matter how "good" it is. Maybe the management has changed but, the mere mention of Josef Joebstl here makes many cringe. Before my time but look here:
http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=4998

I do not know what his association is with Vario anymore but Josef still owns VarioUSA.com (http://variousa.com)

[TargetG]

Yes I checked the mongoose, the thing is that I need the kit an silencer I already have my rc230, I have many because I race 1/5 scale cars.
I been hearing that they had problems before and don't know what to do. Anyone w/ a good experience. I don't want to risk my money. I have to say that those helis look incredible :shock: . I would like to have one but I need more info ASAP. I don't want to buy it finished. I'm ready to buy (Yesterday) :twisted:

THX

Leon :wink:

[PaulH]

Leon: AirStar International has a horrible reputation on the various helicopter forums. Bergen is "made in the USA" too as they do all of their own machining in house. This including milling all of the aluminum parts.

I have a fundamental problem with ARF products. I like building them so that I know how to repair them when they break. It's much better to be familiar with your bird.

Just because you already have an RC230 engine, don't limit your choices to kits that will work with it. I am not slamming Vario in any way, but it is the only model that I am aware of that uses the RC (car) variant of the Zenoah engine. Any kit you buy that includes an engine will include the stock box muffler. If you want something that generates more power look into Bergen, Century, Zimmerman, and Hatori mufflers. On the high-end, Toxic Marine and BH Hanson make pipes for the Zenoah as well.

This is just my opinion: If you want to buy a kit that includes everything except blades, pick up the phone and call Bergen R/C. Ask to talk with Chris. You can ask him any questions you may have about the product. He will also be able to help you choose the right version (standard length or EB) for your flying style.

[BeyondLimits135]

Tom,

I am honestly not sure why they advertise a kit price, but don't yet offer a kit and only offer the helicopters fully built. As far as the price goes, for a Mongoose you are looking about $3000 which would include the heli, 4 servos, a gyro, a Zenoah G260, a dura lite battery and a receiver including shipping in the US.

As far as their reputation, they have come along way with them not having to import their stuff from Vario Germany and now that they make all of their own parts. In regards to their customer service, they have made many advancements to include a link on their site that goes to a fairly new customer care department. That department has been very quick to respond to any correspondence that has come up. I can tell you that the quality of the product they offer is also about the best you can buy and like I mentioned before, replacement parts are very affordable.

I have just recently started a website and have been selling many parts from various lines, including Airstar, and I have been pretty happy with the availability of the parts that I have needed. I have sold a large amount of their parts through the new website and eBay and I can tell you that the people who have received this stuff have been very happy.

Debian, I am not sure what you are referring to people getting burned by Airstar. I have had good experiences with them, granted in the past when they carried Vario, it could have been a long time waiting for parts to arrive. Other than that, I am pretty sure that they have a clean business record and people have either gotten product or not shelled out any cash.

As far as his association with Vario Germany, there is none. I acquired what I believe to be the remainder of his Vario stock a while back. On the site, it shows that the web address is for sale, but I am assuming that Vario doesn't want it, but that is beyond my knowledge and merely an assumption.

I will tell you that the people I have sold to have been extremely happy with the products they have received and those who purchased through me have gotten their parts quickly and to specification. I had only one hiccup in the beginning with Airstar that has since been quickly resolved and I have been extremely happy with the service they have provided to me. I have had to wait maybe 1 day to get any parts that I needed and for the helicopters that I have arranged to be sold, about 2 weeks for gas powered helis and closer to 3 weeks for turbine powered helicopters.

I hope that this is of some help and feel free to contact me with any other information you would like as I am happy to provide any information that I can.

Adam

[Tom Fiddler]

Thanks Adam.
Nice reply. I truly hope things have changed, and wish you luck.

[WillJames]

I would personally avoid Airstar like the plague. I have owned MA and Bergen Gas machines personally, doing all Electric now, but I would not buy from Airstar no matter what. You would not believe how many people have complained about them to me by PM or email. Way too many for it to be unfounded it seems...

[CustomPC]

I concur with what PaulH said in post #5 above.

I'm a happy Spectra-G owner with stock 231 and it's going great.

There's a new gasser on the market called the Maxum and is made by www.realheli.com in the Philippines.

It looks to be a very good design with G10 frames.

[TargetG]

Hello guys,

I have talked to Bergen, very y nice guy and he was out of mufflers , very interesting information and price. Only accepted transfer from first time international customers.

I talked to Joe (Vario) . He was very nice to me, and took the time to give me information, the helis was very expensive comparing to all the other brands. The vario design needs to be updated. Not very happy about using UPS for shipping.

I tried to get a spectra G, and its very hard none in stock, and some stores like MTA hobbies don't even carry them anymore. Very confusing. I have to accept that I did not call direct to at least ask for one. MA its one of my best helis (fury) but it is very complicate machine( to many parts that can fail with vibration if you are not careful).

I personally was not interested in Century. Can not give any opinion here.

I found RealHeli, and they are very expensive , nobody has one and very difficult to get the heli. Only money transfers accepted.

I talk to ASI. Josef first contact, then I was contacted by Nathan (customer care) and finally Adam who is posting here. I did like what I heard because their service was extremely good. From being one man show they give the step to separate management , production and sales. (that's the way to correct Josef,s delays. It is impossible to do all together and worse when you have to import all of your stock). He made a lot of mistakes and have no excused for it. Also I found that he did not ran away with money from anyone , and most important they made the Vario a new better heli. And have not heard of tech problems (At least not in recent times). They sent 9 or 10 e-mails and 6 or 7 international phone calls. They did answer all my questions, including the ones about their reputation. I won't post here the detail you can PM me.

Final conclusion I paid and 24 hour later I received e-mails form the 3 of them, and phone calls from Adam and Nathan. And I have a UPS tracking number (real one) and pics of packaging process. I did not want the engine I did not get it. and I wanted a color change in some parts from the one that I choose from a bunch that were in Stock. I will post pics later and tell you how it got.

Thanks to all of you that took the time to reply to my post. I think that this company is going to be a big one in future, and I hope it is our benefit , The Customers.

Take care you all

Leon G :wink:

[Tom Fiddler]

Hey I got an Air Cleaner from Adam today...Looks good.....not the way I would have retained the filter but it looks like a winner.
Leon I truly hope you're happy with your purchase.

"and most important they made the Vario a new better heli"
Can't agree with that though :mrgreen:

[TargetG]

The package got here this morning (UPS) . All the parts are complete and the way a asked for.
It simply looks beautiful more than I expected, checking tHe quality I just can say perfect. I'll be posting photos when I get home.

Leon :rolling

[Tom Fiddler]

Great.!
Keep us posted on the build.

[TargetG]

Here are some pics, I'll start building tomorrow , but it looks very easy.

Leon

[Tom Fiddler]

That canopy looks cool.

[BeyondLimits135]

Here is a picture of a sweet looking Airstar Mongoose that is nickel plated and blue anodized with a matching patriotic canopy.