Kontronik vs Castle

[OnTheSnap]

My two cents:

I have owned 10 or so CC ESCs over the years and then I tried a Kontronik...never went back. I recently and stupidly tried a CC BEC that came with a heli I got used and it lasted 10 flights before it popped, fried, and took out my Kontronik ESC also :mad: so I am done the CC forever!
I have yet to see someone try a Kontronik and go back to a CC. I have seen PLENTY go the other way though :)........Ron

Yikes! Was it the infamous 10A BEC or the new BEC Pro?

Ugh, I HATE these threads. Makes me want to ground every heli I own even though they're all happily flying for the moment.

Ugh #2, I'm 100% Castle. I hate myself and can't even bear to look in the mirror anymore. :arggg:

[flymustangs]

Setting up a Kontronik ESC is so easy a cave man could do it. :banana

[mmazurek]

What's that say about the people that post about problems setting up their Kontronic ESC's?

:shock:

I am now flying two Castle ICE ESC's and a Jive.

They all work.

[worldofmaya]

What's that say about the people that post about problems setting up their Kontronic ESC's?
They're used to Align & Co... damn I hate all this "menus". One of the Reasons why I have a CC with Castle link and a YGE with prog-card...
Kontronik is straight forward because it doesn't need any special settings out of the box.
-Klaus

[beans07]

I have all kontroniks on my heli's but I wont be buying any more. I have had 2 die in flight for no obvious reason and have been told that they aren't covered by warranty. I also had another one the bec shutdown and totalled a logo600. WTF One was a powerjazz and one a Jive 80HV. I simply can't afford and wont spend the money one another one as not only did they tell me this it took about 5 months for them to give me the bad news. Their warranty and backup service stinks and they are expsensive. They lack being able to update firmware online which is annoying. I am going castle as even if I lose one I can pretty much get 2 for 1 and have nice logging features. I know quite a few of people who have had issues.

[R.Lim]

I have all kontroniks on my heli's but I wont be buying any more. I have had 2 die in flight for no obvious reason and have been told that they aren't covered by warranty. I also had another one the bec shutdown and totalled a logo600. WTF One was a powerjazz and one a Jive 80HV. I simply can't afford and wont spend the money one another one as not only did they tell me this it took about 5 months for them to give me the bad news. Their warranty and backup service stinks and they are expsensive. They lack being able to update firmware online which is annoying. I am going castle as even if I lose one I can pretty much get 2 for 1 and have nice logging features. I know quite a few of people who have had issues.

This is the very first time I heard such bad news about Kontronik ESC, but it can happen. However, normally speaking, it can not be happened, because Kontronik is a certified manufacturer, it means, they applying an ISO standard procedures, which guarantees the stabilities, consistency in order to achieve a high standard quality products. That is one of the reasons why the prices are extremly expensive.

There is an alternative esc which is compatible with Kontronik is the YGE (Young Generation Electronics) it is also a German Manufacturer. Their prices are substancially lower and the guarantees cover for 2 years.

( Off the record: Just joking, maybe your kontronik was a "monday morning "productions, and the supervisor had a day off )

[shadowmastervn]

The first thing I love the JIVE is the Timing function. It's a dynamic timing, which allow to catch up with motor timing to get the best frequency and effectual.
Secondly, the internal BEC is so good, and can hand from 50V and transform to 6V without any problem, going along with the ESC in one small package. To achieve this, it's a result of good algorithm and material.

[Aaalie]

I've also had lots of Kontronik ESC. They all died without a clear cause. Some brand new, after 3 flights, some I bought used, they lasted 20-30 flights. Nothing burnt, just not running anymore. If I think about the x-times blink, it still makes me feel sick. At least six ESC I can remember, all did run within the specs, nicely setup, and some off the ESC bought together with the Kontronik motor in the so called "drive set".
Sending them to Kontronik also costs me money, and all BROKE, no warranty (not even the new ones send back within 2 months after purchase) and also NO CAUSE mentioned by Kontronik (even after repeatedly questioned). Call it bad luck??
In the meantime I bought Himodel affordable ESC, so I could fly. I've never replaced them by others. Some Hobbywings came, and even the Turnigy that costs a fraction off the Kontronik. The branded other ESC all still doing their job (JETI, Schulze, and also CC). Never had any off them broken!

At this moment I even run the streched Logo 600 with a Turnigy sentilon and a CC-Bec at 12 Lipo's and 710 blades. Have had hundreds off flights with it, for motor I've used Plettenberg, Scorpion, TurnigySK, and now a Kontronik KORATOP 30-34. Although the KORA may only run at 8 cell Lipo, I use it for a long time at 12 lipo's. Kind of revenge ;) (burn, you sucker ;) ).
But because of the KORA I'm thinking after a long time about replacing the Turnigy Sentilon and CC-Bec for a Jive80HV. Mainly because of the internal BEC, the efficiency, the very nice spoolup (wich the sentilon absolutely has NOT), and the governor. Only hearing great things about this ESC I will give it a try again after so many years. I really hope I will not be disappointed.


Kind regards,
Aldert

[flymustangs]

I hoped people who have had bad luck with the Kontroniks would eventually chime in. I knew there had to be some out there. No product is perfect. I know of at least one that failed and supplied full voltage to the rest of the electronics, also destroying them, in comparison to similar Pro BEC failures.

There is no doubt the Kontronik is more expensive and I don't think anyone would argue that it's easier to set up. The question becomes, are they a better value? A question like that can only be determined by the user. I'm still going to give them another try and decide that question again.

[OnTheSnap]

This is the very first time I heard such bad news about Kontronik ESC, but it can happen. However, normally speaking, it can not be happened, because Kontronik is a certified manufacturer, it means, they applying an ISO standard procedures, which guarantees the stabilities, consistency in order to achieve a high standard quality products. That is one of the reasons why the prices are extremly expensive.

There is an alternative esc which is compatible with Kontronik is the YGE (Young Generation Electronics) it is also a German Manufacturer. Their prices are substancially lower and the guarantees cover for 2 years.

( Off the record: Just joking, maybe your kontronik was a "monday morning "productions, and the supervisor had a day off )

I worked for a ISO certified company. Let me tell you, it's a bunch of BS and has NOTHING to do with quality control. Just documented processes.

[Big Fil]

I worked for a ISO certified company. Let me tell you, it's a bunch of BS and has NOTHING to do with quality control. Just documented processes.

Yup. I just remember during ISO audits if you saw all the workers at one end of the building that meant the auditors were at the other LOL.

[sandro12321]

Just chiming in here, but you here of 2 or 3 Kotronics failures, and dozens of CC failures, but doesn't Castle sell way more units and maybe this is why there are more failures? It's not like we're talking Align ESC's here. I think maybe Kotronics is better, but why can't there be two good companies? I have run the crap out of CC products in my Cars, which by the way draw way more amps than helis, and in my helis without problem and were talking 90 degrees plus on an erevo 6 cell and a Logo 500 SE 8 cell on an 80 HV and never a problem, and my buddy has the Kotronics 80 HV and I flew it in his 500SE and I didn't notice that much of a difference, but I am also not Alan Szabo 3-D crazy. I think maybe CC puts out a few more lemons than Kotronics but don't compare customer service either, from what I here Kotronics is not good and CC gets back to me and replaces my stuff within a week. But like I said, just my 2 cents. everyone likes what they like.

[desert_flyer]

One of the big problems for CC is the difficulty in setup. Notwithstanding the fact that the governor is complicated and finicky, the real problem lies in the myriad motor settings (timing, frequency etc). I suspect that a lot of fried ESCs result from suboptimal settings that drive the temp of the controller too high. Problem #1 is that very few motor manufacturers list the recommended settings for CC controllers. Problem #2 is that the controller often doesn't work well with the recommended settings. On several occasions I have had to deviate from recommended timing or PWM values to get rid of a high speed wag in governor mode.

The interesting thing of course is that the Jive manages to work without all of this excessive fiddling with timing settings etc. The other thing that bugs me is CC's insistence on the use of a larger pinion in governor mode. I simply don't understand why I can get my Jive to hold 2200rpm on an 11T pinion, but my CC needs a 12T to hold the same RPM. CC says it is the need for overhead? Doesnt the Jive need overhead too? Perhaps the Jive magically increases battery voltage?

In the interests of fairness I will add that CC has A+++ customer service...

[sandro12321]

Yeah I here you on some parts of that but I just put mine on High Gov , enter my motors specs and battery voltage and it does the rest for me. I think when people start trying to set there own rpm's in the gov mode is where the problems come in. On my unit my rpm id avg 2200 on my 500 SE and doesn't vary more than 120 rpm's on hard pitch pumps.

[sandro12321]

And by the way, my ESC never got above 128 degrees last week when it was 100 degrees here in NJ. My scorpion motor on the other hand is at 150 to 170 degrees, but that's how they run so no worries.:smokin:

[desert_flyer]

Sandro,

My story is just the opposite. I fried a HV80 on gov hi mode, and was told by Clint at CC that I should have used set rpm mode, along with a different PWM freq...

This highlights the problem - everybody has a different opinion on what is the "right" way to set it up. Of course, we all think were doing it "right" until you auto down, like I did, and find that the only thing left of your ESC are the battery and motor wires! (On another note, I am glad that I had an ESC with a separate BEC, but that is another debate!)


The most important thing that I learned - which is (mysteriously) not in the manual or setup pdf - is that you CAN run set RPM mode even if the numbers are red, and the software advises that the headspeed is too high for correct governing. Personally, with issues like this, I think the setup software needs another rethink.

[OnTheSnap]

I spoke with a Castle engineer and their current attitude is that their governor is "great" and little work is being done to improve it.

WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING?

Everyone and their mother complains about tail artifacts caused by too high a gain (even Curtis in his blog discussing the gov on the ENV/TotalG). I've compromised on MUSHY throttle response to get the tail to behave. My gain is at 5 on the Logo and throttle is pretty sloppy.

A $400 fix sucks as well, and I'm hoping that the vBar gov is better then Castle even if it's not as good as Kontronic.

So don't hold your breath for an improved governor from Castle. They're apparently delusional. Feel free to post in their forum that their gov sucks so that they assign some bodies to rethink the whole thing.

[LONEWOLF2440]

I think they suck period:happyd

[charles]

I have have been very satisfied with the performance of the Castle controllers. I think the product is of high quality, and the company offers fantastic support. I have used the HV controllers since they were first released, and will continue to trust my helicopters to their controllers.

[Rob Cherry]

...and now a Kontronik KORATOP 30-34. Although the KORA may only run at 8 cell Lipo, I use it for a long time at 12 lipo's. Kind of revenge ;) (burn, you sucker ;) )....

Kind regards,
Aldert


LMAO, I love it. Reminds me of when I graduated to my Protos 500 from a blade 400, I took the blade out and just pounded the snot out of it until it just couldn't handle any more. Tic tocs just 6 inches above the ground back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, it was just crying to die! Then the ground snatched the tail (might have been on purpose) and the cheap plastic bastard just disentigrated. I hated that thing, eflite can rot with all of their CA'd parts.

:banana

[OnTheSnap]

What scares me more is that most all 700E owners run Crispy Creations 80HV ESCs. In addition I keep seeing more N00B's with them at the park! WTF! Align has managed to make 700's more accessible to the masses and now I'm scared s?!tless.

[Mystic3D]

I spoke with a Castle engineer and their current attitude is that their governor is "great" and little work is being done to improve it.

WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING?

LMAO +1

The demise of a company is when arrogance gets in the way of listening to customers.

But A+ for CC Customer Support. I have to rate that higher as sending back to Germany for a Jive Version 9 update is just painful.....

[mmazurek]

Well apparently they're smokin' decent stuff, cuz they just released another update with improvements to the governor.

So much for arrogance and not listening to customers.

Tried the update, seems to work as expected. Noticed I could run a little higher governor gain without wag.

Once again, I fly both and both work.

[OnTheSnap]

Huh? Nowhere in the release notes did they indicate gov improvements. Just less overshoot at spool up and a patch for autorotation mode.

Your improved results are likely a placebo effect.

[mmazurek]

The higher gain without wag is probably the Atom just running real smooth right now.

Skookum vibration level is averaging 0.3 - 0.8 right now. Lowest I've seen so far.

Yeah, no more spool overshoot & whatever 'Default value for Governor Gain was not set correctly' means.