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litespeed
07-30-2010, 09:04 AM
Huh? Nowhere in the release notes did they indicate gov improvements. Just less overshoot at spool up and a patch for autorotation mode.

Your improved results are likely a placebo effect.

From the Castle page, http://www.castlecreations.com/downloads/frh-phoenix.html

# Improvement: Governor mode will follow headspeed change rate during headspeed reductions as well as headspeed increases
# Improvement: Reduced overshoot when approaching set rpm in governor mode
Bug Fix: Default value for Governor Gain was not set correctly.

I'd call that an improvement but to each his own.

So much for the "placebo effect" theory!

Tom

Mr.Andersen
07-30-2010, 09:12 AM
Huh? Nowhere in the release notes did they indicate gov improvements. Just less overshoot at spool up and a patch for autorotation mode.

Your improved results are likely a placebo effect.
So overshooting the headspeed on spoolup and going from heavy to light load on the disc is normal fore CC governors?
Im just trying out governor mode on a CC Phoenix 45 on my 450 and it does exactly that.

Dirtmagnet400
07-30-2010, 09:28 AM
So overshooting the headspeed on spoolup and going from heavy to light load on the disc is normal fore CC governors?
Im just trying out governor mode on a CC Phoenix 45 on my 450 and it does exactly that.

YES!! and yet ANOTHER reason, albeit very minimal reason, why i don't use their gov mode anymore. My headspeed would overshoot on spoolup so badly it sounded violent! I thought i was going to strip my maingear a few times. When you unload the head on a Castle governor the headspeed will increase, which really isn't a big deal, but on a Jive, you can hear the motor basically shutdown for a split second, then re-engage when it senses headspeed getting low. It's really weird to hear but incredibly effective. I'm glad they finally fixed the overshoot on spoolup, but other than that, according to their website literature, NOTHING in that update actually improves the governor function during flight....sorry.

mmazurek
07-30-2010, 10:00 AM
Wow. I was just pointing out that they obviously DO listen do customers and are still trying to improve their governor.

I don't understand why the polarity.

I only fly in governor mode.

I now have a Jive. I still have two Castle ICE's.

If I want a better governor (and have about twice the money) I'll use a Kontronic.
If I want to save some money and/or have the logging features, I'll use a Castle.

I also LOVE my new Logo600.
I still love my Compass Atom.

Spread the love guys.
:cheers



(... I do hate my Trex 450 now though :shock:)

OnTheSnap
07-30-2010, 10:33 AM
From the Castle page, http://www.castlecreations.com/downloads/frh-phoenix.html

# Improvement: Governor mode will follow headspeed change rate during headspeed reductions as well as headspeed increases
# Improvement: Reduced overshoot when approaching set rpm in governor mode
Bug Fix: Default value for Governor Gain was not set correctly.

I'd call that an improvement but to each his own.

So much for the "placebo effect" theory!

Tom
As Dirtnap noted, none of these changes impact flight performance. I'm flying the beta and it's just as sloppy as before.

On a positive note, the Castle feature list is much more impressive then Kontronic. A tangible feature I really like and use is the autorotation mode. I'm trying to get over the hump on inverted autos and this is a really neat feature.

Dirtmagnet400
07-30-2010, 10:45 AM
Wow. I was just pointing out that they obviously DO listen do customers and are still trying to improve their governor.

I don't understand why the polarity.

I only fly in governor mode.

I now have a Jive. I still have two Castle ICE's.

If I want a better governor (and have about twice the money) I'll use a Kontronic.
If I want to save some money and/or have the logging features, I'll use a Castle.

I also LOVE my new Logo600.
I still love my Compass Atom.

Spread the love guys.
:cheers



(... I do hate my Trex 450 now though :shock:)

Believe me, there was no disrespect meant to you or anyone else :D. This is simply frustration based on my experiences with Castle equipment. Like i've said before, i would love to use their controllers for many reasons... mostly because they are an American company and have built in logging. For the life of me, i cannot figure out why they can't keep the controllers from burning up!!! I mean really...:roll: The governor will get better over time (if they would just LISTEN to their customers issues/preferences), it's already come a VERY long way, and not everyone needs a Jive like governor... hell, most do not!! My whole problem with them is they just don't seem to be reliable, and seem like they could "pop" at any time with no warning. It's a very disheartening feeling everytime you plug a battery in....

By the way, i pretty much hate my 450 too...:YeaBaby:

mmazurek
07-30-2010, 12:03 PM
Yeah, I've never had one burn up. I'm sure it's rough always having that doubt.

I've had several Castle ESC's on Heli's as well as hi powered trucks. Always worked well and held up to my abuse.

I've been VERY impressed with Patrick's personal involvement with people on a few forums with their setups as well as answering general questions. Don't know where he finds the time.

Kontronik's support is mail it and wait, or 'maybe' receive a cryptic email from Yoda - "have optimum pole motor, you must" or something like that.

Both have their strong points and weak points.

Even though I've never had one burn up, how's Castle Cremations for a nickname?

perfeet
07-30-2010, 03:42 PM
Even though I've never had one burn up, how's Castle Cremations for a nickname?

:rolling

flymustangs
07-30-2010, 03:54 PM
Well I guess it will be a little while before I get to try the Jive again. I thought I had a 12T pinion, but I don't and Ready Heli is out of stock.

Big Fil
07-30-2010, 03:58 PM
Don't anyone go and take offense to this as I say in light humor, but i've been referring to them as Hastle Creations lately.

"If you want a good price and don't mind the extra hastle, get a Castle"

BTW, my own father has a Trex 600 with a CC85HV. Been pretty much bulletproof for 3yrs now. Even by his request i've tried to kill it in flight and it didn't go up in flames. It must be a Tuesday unit.:)

Big Fil
07-30-2010, 04:07 PM
Ken, I have a spare 12T if you need to get in the air.

worldofmaya
07-30-2010, 04:33 PM
Good to see that there's no realy flame war CC against K going on... you can produce shut-downs with nearly every Esc. Maybe the only Esc out there by now is the 320HV YGE with up to 400 cuntinous current.
-klaus

Ricci
07-30-2010, 04:58 PM
Yeah, I've never had one burn up. I'm sure it's rough
Even though I've never had one burn up, how's Castle Cremations for a nickname?

New name spontaneously adopted. ;)

Ricci.

scnsaracer
07-31-2010, 11:20 AM
I will only chime in with the fact that I like castle because you can call them on the phone and get some support from them. I think with the power that we are running thru these things you will see one burn up once in a while but when I have had a question castle support has been very good. I agree that the gov could be better but that's not enough for me to spend 2x.

Aaalie
08-01-2010, 07:16 AM
Bought the kontronik yesterday, now I realy hpoe it stays alive! Wish me luck ;) .

Kind regards, Aldert

OICU812
08-01-2010, 06:37 PM
Price on each way to go....

Example say you are looking at a Logo 6003D

Castle:

CC 110HV (no BEC)
=$219.99 USD
Now good BEC:
WR Super BEC $100
= TTL now $319 USD

This said as over 50% of the people who have been running the CC Pro BEC on HV systems have in fact been failing.

Kontronik 80HV with built in 100% working BEC $399.00

Difference = $80.00 USD

That is a FAR cry from being double. And on a machine worth well over $2 grand pick your poison. ;) $80 bucks for a sense of insurance, better governor seems logic to me is all.

flymustangs
08-01-2010, 08:06 PM
OK. This is the kind of post that caused me to start this thread. This sounds more like "fuzzy" math. I'm not sure why you quoted a 110HV when an 80 HV will work. Those are $161.99 at most places. I didn't pay that much for mine, which is another benefit of the Castle.

I also don't know where you got the figure that 50% of the Pro BEC's are failing. When you list specific numbers, how about a source? A Castle 80HV and a Pro BEC are 50% of a Jive. You could quote a 160HV with the WR BEC and be pretty near the price of a Jive. When you manipulate the equation it's easy to make the numbers look more favorable.

mmazurek
08-01-2010, 08:33 PM
Don't forget an Eagle Tree Systems setup for the Jive and maybe an optical tach.

OnTheSnap
08-01-2010, 08:35 PM
Oh come on, 50% CcBEC Pros are failing? Plllllease.

OnTheSnap
08-01-2010, 08:50 PM
...

Mystic3D
08-01-2010, 09:12 PM
Chevy/Ford and BMW.
Pick your posion, it's a personal choice.
The debate will never end.

flymustangs
08-01-2010, 09:12 PM
I forgot about the eagletree. I've been wondering about that when I put the Jive on. I'm using two 5S packs and would rather build the Y into the ESC connectors like I currently have with the CC 80HV. That would make hooking up an eagletree pretty interesting.

Laughingstill
08-01-2010, 09:26 PM
I would much rather have an ESC?BEC combo I know will work. You are stil taing a chance with the Castles these days. I had a CC BEC fry my Kontronic ESC on my 500 recently. I am done with Castle :mad:

beans07
08-01-2010, 10:06 PM
I think the failure figures are masked a bit by amount of units out there. It is like the Fasst V Sprektum argument. In Australia there about 15-20 JR/Spektrum to 1 Fasst radio sold. There are more failures reported on Spektrum than Fasst, futaba users claim it is a better system but that doesn't take into account the amount of spektrum units out there. I think Castle is the same. I would think there is a ratio maybe a similar 10:1 with Castle and Kontronik. The failures are highlighted because there are more units.

As for the 50% argument. In Australia you can get an ICE 100 for $125AUD and a CC BEC PRO for $38AUD = total of $163 chuck in a USB cable for $23AUD and you have and it comes to $186. A kontronik Jive 100 is $495AUD. With the math get 2 complete sets and some left over cash for 1.

When is kontronik going to get with times and include firmware upgradability? It is a joke that they don't even cheapies offer this and also the data logging would be sweet.

s0laris
08-01-2010, 11:05 PM
There are tons ton tons more cc sold than kontronics

Tons tons

So more will report when they fail giving illusion of higher failure percentage.

Also many many more new Heli pilot fly with cc and they themselves can do bad things causing it to fail, again magnifying the failure perception.

There are quite a few reports in Heli freak of kontronics failing too.

buy what you are happiest with and just go fly!!