Get rich doing AP ?

[MLaBoyteaux]

I've lifted my GL-2 with the Vario, but I don't have the guts to hang my XL-2 under it. I think I could lift it with my Condor, but if something goes wrong, I'd rather sacrifice the HC-1 than the XL-2.

I think the video from the HC-1 looks better than the GL-2 anyway.

Nice jibs.

[DebianDog]

Don't pick on the DF'er he is sensitive about the little beast :lol:

[sky high]

I wouldn't risk the XL-2 up there for its value alone! It is also very front heavy even if you used the 3:1 lens. I only have one jib which is the one with the XL system on it. It is the larger jib's little brother. It has the same gears and electronics but the arm and remote head are only designed for camera systems 20 lbs and below. For larger camera systems, I would rent the other larger one.

[cainebean]

Phew, I'm glad all of this has cleared up. I was starting to think I was on crapryder. Haha.. Funny how typed words are so hard to really understand sometimes.

[sky high]

Don't pick on the DF'er he is sensitive about the little beast :lol:
That's right, you tell'em dog! Never mess with a pilot with more rotors than you! Hahaha! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[sky high]

Phew, I'm glad all of this has cleared up. I was starting to think I was on crapryder. Haha.. Funny how typed words are so hard to really understand sometimes.
I know it. I hate boards for that reason sometimes. It takes half a page or more to convey what would take 20 seconds by voice. :arggg:

[ullr]

Sky High,



I feel that if you add in the liability and high skill level required of AP, that you are stepping beyond the typical photographers abilities. And a commercial billing rate should be applied.

Have a nice day. Sorry if my post seemed like it was attacking you.

[GJestico]

Perhaps something has been lost here.
The news clip only shows a snippet of the work these guys do. Making panos such as referred to can be extremely difficult. Getting quality pics and stiching them together into a -perfect- show quality image can take tons of time. now do it for a hundred or more viewpoints.
This isnt a situation were a guy with a slowstick and 4oz camera can compete. Likely the desired quality drives the price.

If its so easy to do for 1/10 th the price, then let's see some. Show me a pano from ane exact spot and altitude, then show me another one from 20 feet above that etc. I can think of very few people on this board who could do it. maybe only one. (just give me a month and that may change.... :wink: )

Greg

[dreslism]

Right Greg,

The shoot may be a 2-5 day shoot if they are doing morning, afternoon, and evening shots on a big development, then there will be countless more hours stitching them all together which is no easy task.

[sky high]

Sky High,

I feel that if you add in the liability and high skill level required of AP, that you are stepping beyond the typical photographers abilities. And a commercial billing rate should be applied.

Have a nice day. Sorry if my post seemed like it was attacking you.
Oh, I totally agree and have stated that myself about charging premium rates for what I provide on the ground and in the air. Like I also said, those rates are more than likely several days of work which makes more sense. After I had listed some of the services that I offer and the rates that are charged and then you made your statement about what the definition of a professional shooter is and what that they should charge, it didn't make sense because you were referring to someone like me and at the same time informing me about someone like me. :?: Thanks for following up. Everything is good. :)

[sky high]

Perhaps something has been lost here.
The news clip only shows a snippet of the work these guys do. Making panos such as referred to can be extremely difficult. Getting quality pics and stiching them together into a -perfect- show quality image can take tons of time. now do it for a hundred or more viewpoints.
This isnt a situation were a guy with a slowstick and 4oz camera can compete. Likely the desired quality drives the price.

If its so easy to do for 1/10 th the price, then let's see some. Show me a pano from ane exact spot and altitude, then show me another one from 20 feet above that etc. I can think of very few people on this board who could do it. maybe only one. (just give me a month and that may change.... :wink: )
The price doesn't really define how easy it is as much as the motivation to do it because of the labor involved. A $5K-$8K day is not a bad pay day. I have had the same questions asked from those that do not know what's involved to produce a "simple" 5 minute video. Statements like, well what is it that costs so much? First it's the gear, then it's the experience and finally it's the time involved. Did you know that a relatively simple 30 minute reality show (actually 20 minutes of content) costs around $80K to produce? Just look at the credits with all of those people involved. Believe me, those producers don't like paying for all of that! I have to admit that I probably spoke too soon before knowing all the facts about this AP 360 service. The article makes it sound like they send up a helo, lock it down, rotate the camera while taking images and then there's obviously some post work but who knows how much. In fact, there may very well be much more to it than was described. I'm just going to assume that there is and the rates fit the service. I still don't think they are correct by saying they're the only one's doing it though.

[askman]

with right system, it will be lot simpler. my guess is that they are running carvec system since they put the cost of each heli at 20,000. with this setup, shoot could be done in a day, plus post processing. but possibility of reshoot. my guess is that they need to plan for multi day though, and it is completely on the road shoot. the developer would probably want the downlink video as well.

still, this is good gig, if you can get it. but it takes investment in both equipment, skillset as well as making connections.

[Billme]

:smokin:

[LoopBaCK]

Sorry -- I missed out on the first round of verbal thrashings.

So... Sky high, I'm just curious - why is the pricing such a big deal to you? I know... I read your first posts and such. But what do you care. In re-reading this thread and getting caught up you seem to be the only individual thinking the pricing was crazy. Large photoshoot fees are nothing new. And these fees are very much inline with their value as a product.

OK... now I'm on the list... :lol: :twisted: :lol:

[Xcellgasman101]

Bill,, Pick a color on the hair man,,, :lol: :lol:
Sky high,, I think that the newspaper miss quoted them,, I'll bet that they said something like,, We are the only one doing it like this around here,, and the paper just put,, they are the only one's useing a RC heli.. I have gone back and re-read the whole post, and it still sounds like you are upset that they are being paid this amount of money to fly,,, Or maybe you are just jealous that its not you??? Do you think it is dumb that you posted you make 5k to 8k a shot,,, well you think it is dumb for them to say???

I wonder what you overhead is like,, Just you, or are there several employees?? I think that there are several in SkyPan Int. There are alot of behind the scene people employed by them,,




Good luck in the future,, XGM

[Tonystott]

Call me simple, but the more publicity given to high $$$ AP photoshoots, the greater appreciation the marketplace has about the value of the work, and the less obstacles in my path to earn more money.

Bring it on I say! :lolol

[sky high]

Loopback and Xcellgasman101, I thought that my last post was clear about where I stand.

Xcellgasman101, where.......where does it say that I make $5K-$8K for AP? I make alot more than that with my regular production services mostly because that gear costs 10x as much. Those figures were for others with similar and even higher end larger helos like the one in that article. I thought I was quite clear when I said my rates for my helo are below $3K per day. Read man, read!

To both of you. I am not mad or jealous about what they are making on these projects. I said it several times, MORE POWER TO THEM if they can get those rates. I know that I also said I have to justify my rates sometimes too. So that would imply that I don't necessarily like it when someone questions my rates either. It mostly comes from clients that truly don't know any better because they haven't had to compare them to others with equal or more qualifications than me. When they do, they say ohhhh, okay, I see now. My last post summed it up by me ADMITTING that I don't know all that is involved with what they are doing. "I have to admit that I probably spoke too soon before knowing all the facts about this AP 360 service." You guys need to read and stop inventing something to argue about.

[LoopBaCK]

:wink: :wink:

[sky high]

Call me simple, but the more publicity given to high $$$ AP photoshoots, the greater appreciation the marketplace has about the value of the work, and the less obstacles in my path to earn more money.

Bring it on I say! :lolol
Yes, it can go both ways. I just wouldn't want it to go the other way. :mrgreen:

Just like any other industry, in the production industry there have been plenty of copycats that make production camera platforms. The Steadicam rig is the best example. There were lawsuits over the similar designs of this piece of gear. It provides a very high production value to the shot and is a heavily used tool in the industry. It takes alot of skill and practice to master it just as an RC helo does. Therefore, when it was first introduced in the '70s, an owner/operator could make alot of money in one day, not to mention over the entire project, because of the shots it could achieve AND because there weren't that many operators. Since then, there have been countless copies based on its design from the handheld for DV to the full body rig versions for broadcast and film cameras. Some of these are cheaper than the original brand therefore the number of owner/operators has significantly increased which in turn has driven rates to ridiculous lows considering the skill required to operate it and the beautful shots only it can provide.

It's just like DV has put a significant dent into the broadcast industry. How would you like to own a couple of high end broadcast cameras that you bought several years ago with all the accessories worth around $200K? Then watch the jobs slowly disappear because more and more reality shows are being shot with $3K DV cameras. Higher end cameras are definitely still needed for certain projects that demand the quality only they can provide but DV is constantly on their heels and getting better every year.

[LoopBaCK]

I'm just a little curious about all this...

What would it cost to get those top 10 floors shot from Cryo's example on the first page. Forget the bottom 80 floors - just the top 10. Need a high quality 260-pano from each condo on each of the top ten floors. Just a rough quote on that one? Let's say the location is in downtown Dallas, TX so throw travel on the quote if needed.

There probably aren't many individuals who can deliver such a product.

[sky high]

:DH :mrgreen:

[dreslism]

:DH :mrgreen:

Agreed. :D

When I first read your post, I kinda felt like many others here and I almost chimed in, then I reread your post, and thought the same thing you state here, but decided not to join in on the bandwagon.

My last post summed it up by me ADMITTING that I don't know all that is involved with what they are doing. "I have to admit that I probably spoke too soon before knowing all the facts about this AP 360 service." You guys need to read and stop inventing something to argue about.

He said he probably spoke to soon, give this a rest.

[LoopBaCK]

alright... :DH I suppose...

[loopzilla]

I have a few comments:

That looks like a RoundShot film camera, which is NOT easy to use. I have one, and you have to be extremely stable to use it successfully. Any cyclic, and you get a wavy horizon.

Then, you need to have a really good person retouching the image, which isn't cheap even if you are the one behind the mouse.

You also really need to understand photography. Getting in the correct position and knowing the correct minute to get good lighting is worth a large portion of the cash. Stay grounded for five minutes, and you have try it on another day (meaning more expense). Getting good aerial shots is not only about the platform, the photographic equipment, and how stable it is.

Insurance for this application is not cheap, and most property developers require some sort of insurance to protect the neighboring properties. Some offer to cover you through their landowner's protections, but you really have to know to ask. Either way, you assume some level of risk and liability.

Developers really need these types of elevation shots to gain interest and prove to potential investors that the building will bring in certain types of residents. The cost is amortized over the years through the tenants, so it really isn't about the cost. If the view sucks, there won't be millions spent on the building, so they have saved money.

Most full scale guys that have tried to do the same flying in urban developments have been grounded, so MAV operation is one other successful methodology.

In the next year or so, our costs and liabilities to do this type of thing will increase. There is just too much proliferation, leading to increased risks. Expect regulation on flying for commercial applications. That said, the money may not be enough.

Everything looks easy until you are standing there...

[spork]

This whole thing reminds me of a (true) story - but I'm sure I'll get some of the details wrong.

Edison invents the electric car. His neighbor, Firestone offers to buy the rights to it. Edison offers it for $20K. Firestone takes the deal. Edison tells Firestone he's been had - Edison would've sold the rights for as little as $8K. Firestone says "Interesting - I was prepared to go as high as $60K".

There is sometimes a HUGE value in handing over a budget (even a fat one) and being able to say "just make it happen". You can't necessarily assume people are making poor decisions, even if they could have purchased the same services for less.

In my opinion, most people undervalue their products and services. The market will let you know if you're asking too much.