View Full Version : No excitement here regarding the X50?
08-26-2010, 12:56 AM
I was bouncing around, trying to find any more info on the X50, came across A-Main Hobbies. They have the X50 available for pre-order in 2 different ways. The kit with blades is going for $440 and the combo kit with blades, RL-53 and muffler is going for $660. I am getting excited about it being released, I have been wanting to upgrade but loved the old 50 too much. I guess it is time to add another one to the fleet.
08-26-2010, 05:40 AM
You missed the point about 140 degree eCCPM this give no interaction on the swash although the resolution will still suffer. The x50 has optional 140 degree swash, I've seen one close up and had a play with it on the bench. The forward linkages for the swash have two different mounting points. If you have the option of 140 degree eCCPM on your radio then use it. Unfortunately if you limit yourself to mCCPM helis only you don't have much choice on the market, and once Tt decide to discontinue the raptors there's only going to be the realy high end kits from company's like Bergen for you
08-26-2010, 07:26 AM
The reason to have 140 degrees eCCPM is not to tackle interactions as they will be still present with eCCPM .. the real reason to have a 135/ 140 degrees swash design (instead 120 degrees eCCPM) is something completely different..
A 120 degrees swash-design will not give even aileron and elevator cyclic output when swash-servos make the same travel - so to be straight, it's a basic flaw in swash-geometry ! :confused:
Having a 135/ 140 degrees swash-design the above inconsistency (even cyclic at same servo travel) is solved :thumbup:
Once again, even on a 135/ 140 degrees swash you will have some serious interactions and sometimes phasing as well. I set-up my nitros pretty well (to be modest) and even my Vibe50 (140 degrees) had some noticeable interactions. Considering the quality of the V50 kit's parts and the well engineered mecanics, this comes definetly from the issue described above in my post :YeaBaby: ..
Now it starts to be interesting, as what many people describe as of being *flight precision* of a helicopter is a multiple outcome inbetween the quality of a rotor-head (design/ levers and materials) , the dampening of all vibrations and the lack of interactions/phasing .. meanwhile the *agility* is a question of the rotor-head (design/ lever ratios) and the overall weight&power ..
IMO any 3D-helicopter should be looked at it's overall rating as of being an excellent combination in *precision* vs. *agility* .. go a step further and compare the price inbetween the different makes .. :)
Knowing how and for relatively little money, you can make work your eCCPM way better than before .. but once again, you will need more effort to still not arrive completely where mechanical swash-plate mixing is. Isn't it up to us in this hobby to remember manufacturers what we like and what we do not like? Looking about some trends I sometimes doubt, if manufacturers really keep most of us in mind when designing a new machine (ease-of-built, ease-of-setup, ease-of-repair etc.) or just everything has become to serve the vanity of a few ones?
08-26-2010, 09:07 AM
I stand corrected,
I defiantly understand about different manufactturers and the design of the helis.
My first heli was a trex 450 (don't mock, I'm not proud of it) and it don't fly strieght, never has probably never will, my next heli is a elyq, this suffers huge interaction problems due to the swash design. My third heli is a MA spectra g, this flys straight as an arrow with very little interactions but at four times the price of the other two I expect it to be right. I'm sure you understand much better then me why this is.
Once again thank you for the.crash course in heli mechanics.
08-26-2010, 11:25 PM
Hey, thanks. The above posts cleared a lot of nomenclature problems up for me. Phasing, as it is called here, is a gyroscopic precession issue on real helicopters, and the asymmetry of lift for a rotor system in ff flight is called retreating blade stall.
The resolution sacrafice mentioned makes sense also.
One thing that differs from what you posted to what I have been taught is that interactions are removed through the use of a "swash mix" page and not atv's.
I guess I have just been lucky in the set ups on my eccpm helis, as they have always flown extremely well when set up right.
08-27-2010, 04:10 AM
Unfortunatelly I can't contribute that much to nomenclature and terms:dontknow, as English is not my motherthongue .. that is maybe one reason why my writting is a little bit longer, but hope you understand what I'm trying to say :cheers
IMO I distinguish inbetween 3 different price ranges for helicopter Tx/ radios (does not mean their quality):
- the lower end: Futaba T6 & T7, Spektrum Dx6i etc.
- the mid range: Spektrum Dx7i & Dx8, Futaba T8/10, Hitec Aurora etc.
- the high end: Futaba T12 (funningly SW derivated for T8?) and T14
Most of the Txs up from the mid-range have menues to correct for interactions (don't know the menue name for every Tx-brand) and to correct for phasing (virtually pivoting the swash). If you do not have such a menue (I use a T7C) you can either try what I proposed above (for novices & sportsflyers) or be using a CSM Cyclock1 (3D and towards F3C). Correcting for interactions on a Tx which has the software for it, seems not to be that easy and quick to most people (and IMO the resolution problem is not solved as if emulating a H-1 swash), as most people's helicopters I observe seem to have pretty a lot of interactions :confused: ..
Furthermore most people I know, own from a Futaba T6 up to a Futaba T10 (many Spektrum Dx6 & 7 here over as well), as the higher-end Tx are priced funningly. It can't be in the helicopters manufacturer's interest, that by applying eCCPM the flight results will become only precise if using a very expensive Tx, or using even FBL? My combination of a Futaba T7C with a Cyclock1 beats maybe even the highend-Tx when it comes to ease of setup and precison (resolution, eliminating interactions/ phasing). :YeaBaby:
I remember a vid from Bobby Watts/ Bert Kammerer (smacktalk) where they shortly discuss interaction check/ correction on a Tx allowing to do so. Would I buy a more expensive Tx if flying *precise* 3D with an eCCPM helicopter? Nope:
- if you have a T6, T7 or Spektrum Dx6 buy a Cyclock or go FBL (Microbeast)
- if you have a T8/ T10 or Spektrum Dx7 try to get out as much your Tx-software allows (remember the resolution-problem) .. if still unhappy, buy yourself a Cyclock or go FBL ..
Would I buy very expensive high resolution servos for my eCCPM ? Well, somehow weared to pay USD 200.- per servo with 4096 bit resolution to at the end have only a resolution left of maybe 1500 (7.5 bit per 1 buck) ? :YeaBaby: .. A half-priced well-made servo with maybe 2048 bit resolution and e.g. a Cyclock will almost keep the resolution (20.5 bit per 1 buck) :clappp ..
There is a pretty long Thread on HF about how to set-up an eCCPM helicopter. Partially what is written there about what to do when setting-up an eCCPM-system, IMO is a complete overkill in effort :confused: ..
To close the loop coming back to the subject of this thread (X50), the main reason why it is so important to have the possibility to setup an eCCPM helicopter as good as possible and fast is, that when you crash you don't want to repeat very complicated setups again and again. So what makes you to setup eCCPM almost completely new? Definetly a crash were you have to exchange one/ or both side frames. That's mainly the case when manufacturers build the servos in the side-frames :arggg: .. it will cost a hell to buy side-frames, for hours rebuilding, installing the servos again .. and restart your eCCPM settup including the elimination of interactions and phasing ..
Is the X50 a bad helicopter .. surely not .. but no excitement for something that follows the same path others did and already offer (eCCPM and lack of modularity) .. if a X50 does what a Vibe50 or Velocity50 does, but for less bucks (including low spare prices) than the X50 might be worth a trial ..
IMO if you fly 3D the main objective is to have fun (w/o hurting anyone - safety first), if you have fun this comes from learning to fly/ control (3D) your helicopter in any orientation/ situation, if you want to learn this you need training-training-training, if you want to train you need a *precise and agile* machine being in the air and not grounded for whatever reason, to not loose flight time you need a machine very easy to built/ easy to be set-up/ easy to be repaired .. so everything working against the above criteria, is IMO a step-back.. that's exactly what I mean by *manufacturers sometimes not keeping final customers in mind* .. and eCCPM and lack-of-modularity clearly work against my criteria what 3D is all about ..
P.S: There's no such things as "bit per buck" .. just wanted to show how we try to quantify things in this hobby w/o having criteria than just our common-sense and experience when comparing to systems by using them both for fair comparison reasons ..
PPS: I think I do not need to mention what ou hobby is about too, it's in the credo of HF :thumbup:
09-07-2010, 05:29 PM
Titan X50 already on sale in Singapore. LHS brought it in yesterday, and a member of the local forum put up some unboxing pics:
09-09-2010, 10:04 AM
I don't currently own any TT birds, but once again, I am very interested in the newest offering. Seeing the video of it at the 3D Masters was mind-boggling. Seeing it at IRCHA this summer was equally impressive. Great value for the price, and promises to be a very high performing model. Canopy looks agressive too.
09-17-2010, 04:49 PM
I wondered just how long they would take to get them ....... kit spec for kit spec, not a lot of difference between the X50 and the STD Raptor 50 SE http://www.helikraft.com/product_info.php?currency=NZD&cPath=20_21&products_id=7944
09-21-2010, 04:29 PM
The attached info should answer some questions.
file is 1.64MB
10-12-2010, 06:36 AM
I haven't been this excited about a heli since I built my 600LE. That video was great! The heli appears to fly very "light", which has huge appeal to me since my bird is quite heavy. Seriously thinking about building one of these over the coming winter.
10-13-2010, 05:53 PM
got mine Saturday and was flying it Sunday.I like this heli!
there are a few gripes,but otherwise a very good looking machine and flies like a feather.this heli is light and you can feel it in the sticks.it's very agile as well.
haven't picked up the 3g Rex since LOL!!