Terrified of Lipo’s

[C!ph3r]

Ok. I jus purchased my first heli and i have been researching like crazy. I have a 450xl.

Can i use a different battery type?
i was going to use a 3s lipo pack. all of this talk about fire REALLY freaks me out. it is obviously a real problem even when precautions are taken. But here is my problem. i live in a condo. I don’t have a garage or a basement and i live on the second floor. I do have a fireplace. I cant take the risk of burning down a complex for longer flight times and more power.

The only thing i can think of is using an ammo box with a vent hole for the gas, unlatched, in the fire place with the duct open. This way if it did go up in smoke like the videos the vent hole would allow the gas to go straight up the chimney.

thoughts?

[HeliDan]

As I have recently learned, the ammo boxes are not adequate. Buy a LiPo bag. Does a great job of containing the problem. Only smoke comes out. And stench!

About $30!!

http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/main.asp?sid=511416&pgid=misc

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Yes buy a Lipo bag... also if your careful I doubt you will have any problems.

[Danyboy]

Cipher,

I've been an electric guy for all my time in rc-flying (~14yrs).
I've been heavy in the hight-power business with F5B when NiCd were still king of the hill...

I have successfully converted to LiPo almost a year ago.

Almost everybody at our field uses only lipo.

Let me assure you, that within our congregation, I only know of 4 incidents with Lipos.
Two were caused by "handling without brain", specifically shorted the cells while handling in the assembling-process. Due to large capacity, the room had to be repainted after the second one.
One was caused by what a beginner calls a "hard landing" (I call it crash... ;) ). Battery bloated, was instantly disconnected upon recovery, nothing else happened.
Fourth one was me myself, because I plugged - due to missing additional thoughts ;) - + to - on ESC and + to - on the battery. Only thing was some smoke with nasty smell. Why? I did not use colour-coding on shrink-wrap...

All in all, I have never heard of a battery, that would spontaneous go up.

It always happens when it is mistreated. *Never* when being left alone or handled correctly.

That's the little secret.

Will a car kill you? Normally not, when being driven in a normal manner. But it can, if you don't use it as you should.
Same with Lipo. And NiCd and NiMh as well.
I've seen a NiCd explode once. Only a single cell of the pack. But I've gotten an idea then, how it is, to have a fragment-grenade going off about 10m from you...

In my opinion, if you're afraid of LiPo's, you should distance yourself from rc-business as a whole:
Your handling of LiPo's, you can influence (coming back to the bag), having someone produce interference, you cannot control... And a rc-helo is and always will be a lawn-mower without safety-shroud...

But...

If you would like to fly powerful, there are only gassers and Lipos...

But on what I would like to give a good thumbs up:
You've informed yourself on what you are going to use!
I've seen people doing it after "it" happened...

My personal consensus:
You do not need to fear LiPo, but like with almost everything, you need to have a certain respect.

Cheers,

Daniel

[spork]

I'm planning on trying the A123's in my T-Rex 450. At least one guy on the forum swears by them despite their added weight.

[C!ph3r]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I could charge them and store them in the lipo bag? How many batteries can I store in the bag? I may also invest in the battery bunker or a couple of clay pots.

After a crash discard the battery if there is ANY sign of physical damage. I also assume to only discard them after they have been discharged and I would also assume they should be disposed of at a battery facility and not just thrown in the dumpster.

I have searched on the term discharge but came up with to many hits to make an informed decision.
How do I properly discharge the battery and should they be discharged before storing them?

I am looking into the CellPro 4s I believe it is called. Seems to be the safest charger I have found.

Thanks again guys.

[Pinecone]

Storage is not a problem. The things that cause lipos to vent are over charging, over discharging, or damage.

So when charging, use a GOOD charger and keep an eye on things. Use lipo sack.

When flying, use a timer AND a lipo alarm. IMMEDIATELY disconenct the battery when you are finished with a flight. Never discharge below 3 volts per cell. And be careful not to short them out when installing conenctors, in your pocket (change) or any other time. Other than shorting the problem with over discahrge comes when you try to charge, and a GOOD charger, won't charge it without jumping through extra hoops.

Damage - if you crash, leave lipo outside for several hours to see if it swells. If so, it is trash. If it gets a hole in it, get rid of it. If you have any doubts, leave it outside. Store them in a way to prevent damage or shorting.

Realize that 1 cup of gasoline is equal to a stick of dynamite in explosive power, and your car has how many gallons? Treat lipos right and they are fine. Do stupid things, and they will bite you, but so will any battery. I have seen exploded car batteries.

[spork]

You should never discharge a LiPo to less than 20% of it's capacity (unless discarding it). For storage they're happiest at 50% capacity.

To discard the cells they should be neutralized in a salt-water bath for a couple of days. There seems to be some confusion as to whether you should puncture the cells to insure the saltwater gets in. I figure I'd let mine soak for a couple of days; then puncture them and give them a couple more.

[BarracudaHockey]

Funny story: I treated my first lipos when I bought a TRex like I was working on a loaded bomb, my hands shook when I was soldering them. I set up the charger on my first pack and left it sit on my metal work bench and watched it for a few minutes then went inside. I came out about 15 minutes later and the garage was full of smoke, :shock: had I not been a former fireman I would probably have hit the panic button but a short (but high blood pressure) investegation revealed in the 10 minutes I was inside my neighbor had lit a pile of wet leaves on fire.

Anyways always be careful with the things. Strip one wire, solder it and shrink wrap it, then strip solder shrink wrap, I even tape the other off to the side on the battery so there's no possible way to short the pack. Double check polarity BEFORE making any connections. Protect the packs you are transporting.

Just some tips.

[HeliDan]

Hahahaha :lolol

My butt puckered just reading the beginning...... Thats the sort of thing that always happens to me. At work I press the 'high voltage on' button for the first time on a new system and someone drops a metal panel. Then I have to go change my shorts and continue on.... :arggg:

[spork]

Only remotely related, but a fun thing to do at work is to flicker the light switch briefly and listen for about 30 programmers to gasp as they fear losing all their work.

[HeliDan]

Only remotely related, but a fun thing to do at work is to flicker the light switch briefly and listen for about 30 programmers to gasp as they fear losing all their work.

Well, while doing a cad design, that has happened I almost fell out of my chair.

Some idiots here used to think it would be funny to pop bubble wrap right behind ones back while the unsuspecting guy was working on or around high voltage. People dont realize how dangerous that can be. I almost decked one guy that did it to me. And I know no one would have 'seen anything'. Luckily those guys are not here anymore and bubble wrap is not allowed in the labs or test areas any longer.

[spork]

Some idiots here used to think it would be funny to pop bubble wrap right behind ones back while the unsuspecting guy was working on or around high voltage.

Somewhat less danger when the guys are writing software to make pretty pixels on the TV screen. :mrgreen:

[Pinecone]

BTW there were some tests run on RC Groups. Salt water bath for the charged pack is NOT good. The tabs corrode off and the pack is still partially charged.

You should totally discharge the pack, use discharger or some load to get them flat, then short them (when you are sure they are basically flat).

Submerge in salt water and puncture. The salt water will neutralize any remaining active metals, but if the pack is truely flat, there should be none.

Or you can play with them and overcharge them for fun. Once they "vent" they are safe to throw away. :)

[C!ph3r]

great info guys.

What do you use to discharge?

Before your minds go deep into the gutter, the batteries. :wink:

[HeliDan]

My charger/balancer will do it. Many will..... :glasses2:

[heliboy1100]

So when charging, use a GOOD charger and keep an eye on things.


What would be considered a "GOOD" charger. Not brand or model, but basic requirements (specs) and what would be considered bonus additions?

[Pinecone]

Well, let's see.

I look that it has safety features to prevent setting the wrong voltage (or at least making you work to do it). Either balancing built in or works well with a balancer.

Name brand that you trust to not go whacky and blow up your packs. I am beginning to prefer lipo ONLY chargers to avoid screwing up and charging on NiCD or NiMH settings, although that may mean two chargers.

VERY nice features is the ability to charge/disharge to storage voltage.

It must have a readout of the voltage and the amount of charge put back into the pack.

It must handle the largest packs you even THINK you might want to try. That means sufficeint current to charge large capacity packs in a reasonable time and the capability to do high enough series packs. Getting a 2 amp 3S charger is fine wiht a Trex, but when you get anything larger, you end up getting another charger.

Nice to have is the ability to discharge at a reasonable rate.

Ones I have are:

Triton (original) 4S, 5 or 6 amp capable. Does all types of packs. Works well with the Equinox balancer. New Triton does 7 amps and 5S. I may trade up.

Thunder Power 1010C with 210V balancer, awesome setup, goes to 10S, will fast charge appropriate packs at 2C or 3C rate (20 - 30 minutes). I can't see outgrowing this.

I am looking at getting an FMA CellPro. Does 4S, the A123 capable version does charge/discharge to Lipo storage levels. Read out of voltage of all 4 cells at the same time. Nice charger for $65.

[C!ph3r]

Great question Heliboy. Just the type of info i wanted but didnt know how to ask.


Nice info Pinecone. Now i know what exactly it is i need to get.

[heliboy1100]

Yeah, thanks for the great info Pinecone.

[Pinecone]

Oh, and buy a LipoSack. :)

[C!ph3r]

Here comes a very NEWB question and I cower in the corner as I type. I couldn’t find it by searching and didn’t know what search string to use. All this talk about lipos but not any about the other electronics. What batteries do the rest of the electronics run off of? I don’t have any thing other than the kit at the moment so I have no visual reference to go off of? NO mention of it thus far and what is used to charge them? Not if it all runs off of the same battery I feel REALLY dumb.

Reason i ask is that if i decide to go nitro to avoid this lipo thung will i still have to use lipo for the rest of the electronis. receiver, servos, started?

Thakns again for the help.

[spork]

For the electrics we almost always use a single pack to power the motor, servos, RX, gyro... The ESC (electronic speed control) also acts as a voltage regulator so we can run the other stuff at 4.8V off the 11.1V LiPo pack (of course other voltage LiPo packs are used as well - and then a separate BEC is frequently used for providing regulated voltage).

If you use LiPo's you MUST use a LiPo charger (not a NiMH or NiCad charger). And you really SHOULD use a balancer. No big deal, just the stuff you'd need.

If you run nitro you can run your RX, servos, and gyro off of NiCad or NiMH packs.

You may stop cowering in the corner now - but only long enough to come over and kneel before me - then back to your corner! :mrgreen:

[C!ph3r]

:noteworthy

thanks for the info once again spork

[spork]

:noteworthy

thanks for the info once again spork


Nicely done - now back in your corner! :mrgreen:


But in all seriousness. You shouldn't expect any abuse on here for asking an honest question. The abuse I gave you was purely gratuitous! :mrgreen: