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eightythree
09-10-2010, 01:34 AM
The 4G6 has always been a "I want one of them just because" helis..

I know this little CP guy has a good say in novice/newbie mention, but I'm looking at it as a quirky machine that will perform what I want it to do..

So what's the rundown in performance? I've seen the videos, and I know a light weight machine, and high power 1S lipo is the way to go, but what model to start with? that being said.....
I saw the stock 4G6 perform last winter indoors from an intermediate pilot, it didnt look so bad. He even had it inverted at some times.

so whats the deal for the BEST performance and radio options?

I have a DX7, but I dont want to upgrade an Rx and go thru mods if I can just buy a model with the 2.4 Tx, (which I thought looked good IMO) if i can get away spending the same cash with another radio. hell, maybe my baby daughter can inherit the 2.4 walkera radio as a first setup :D

What BL motor to run?
Is the new 4G6S not intended for the 3D minded?
Go 3axis and do the aftermarket FBL head?

Don't go and throw out model numbers I don't understand and mods that make it a 'performer'
I'm looking to keep it stock besides trying a different motor and lipos of my choice (which is all thats needed IMO)

If you need to school me on Walkera lingo, go a head ;) seems there is a lot to learn in terms of Part no. and model no.


-P

timewerx
09-10-2010, 02:16 AM
The 4G6 without the 'S' is still the best 3D performer out there due to higher motor power delivery. The RX on the 4G6S puts a limit on motor power to 90%. Unfortunately, the stock RX is getting pretty rare nowadays that if you break it, you'll be forced to convert the electronics to be Spektrum/DX7 compatible.

The best 1S motor is HP08-2. I got mine from clubheli.com. Best 1S LiPo it seems is the Oversky 400mAh 20c.

If you are DIY kind of guy you can click my sig for all the mods to reduce the 4G6's weight by 22%. My mods + upgrade motor/LiPo + stock foam blades can give the 4G6 sustained 3:1 thrust to weight ratio out of ground effect without bogging and with very solid tail hold.

If you're not a DIY'er, you can do the 2S mod. Ampdraw would be the expert on this, apparently, he's also the expert on conversion to Spektrum compatibility

Intact
09-10-2010, 03:07 AM
4g6s is sold as a 3D heli but the more experienced say it needs a motor upgrade.

The v120d02 is walkera's flybarless version. It has a differently programmed receiver that corrects itself? for flybarless application i guess?


I can personally vouch for the aftermarket CNC heads on the 4g6s tho.. Theres a flybar and flybarless version, whichever you prefer. I use the flybarless. It exceeded my expectations today and is spoiling me.


I crashed inverted from 30 feet today.. Somehow got inverted in normal flight mode from the wind. It looked liek a dot in the distance, IDK what happened.6 In the end lots of broken stuff. Big gash on the top of the head but its still completely true after replacing most of everything else. I want a new one cause of the gash,, but i dont think i'd need it for a long time performance wise.. :o




Everyone will tell you to get a 2801 but not why. I wish they did before i had made my purchase with a 2602.

The 2602(6 channel) transmitter lacks in-depth setting of curves, no sub-trim or detailed servo settings etc. Makes it impossible to perfect cp swash mixing stuff. And the difference is only about 40 bucks compared to the 2801(8 channel?) ?



Walkera parts quality is okay but varies some. You get what you pay for.


Read all the 4... or 5? stickies here on the 4g6 area and your mostly set.





From the top of my head, only issues i can think of are...

Stripping the front tail shaft gear.

Tail pitch slider slop

and head slop!



Quick search shows the fixes for em! Have fun!

hjns
09-10-2010, 04:03 AM
I like your approach: nice lil 3D setup.
So the best people you can ask are probably the experienced pilots. Go to RC groups (http://www.rcgroups.com/micro-helis-42/) and look for Dkfuji and Buildem. You may also ask the same question on a German forum here (http://www.rclineforum.de/forum/board.php?boardid=38&sid=).

If you want to remain "stock" then there is different definitions of "stock". Stock as directly from Walkera will bring you the following:


4G6 w/ Rx2609 (6 channel receiver + HH gyro that talks in 8 channel mode with the Tx2801Pro transmitter) and 005 motor (underpowered)
4G6S w/ Rx2610s (6 channel receiver + 3-axis gyro that talks in 6 channel mode with the Tx2801 pro) and 005 motor
V120D02 w Rx2610v (6 channel receiver + 3-axis gyro that tries to talk 8 channel to the Tx2801 pro.) and 005 motor

The above is also sold with the Tx2602 transmitter, but you cannot set indepth curves as you would like, nor has it a timer etc. If going 3D, do not consider the Tx2602. So your choices above always include upgrading the motor, choosing between HH and 3-axis gyro, and choosing 6 or 8 channel talk between Tx and Rx.



If you want agility and power, get yourself a 4G6 with HH and upgraded motor (at 1S there is the HP07-2 or HP08-2, and at 2S there is the HP08-2S => recommended for shear power) and Tx2801 pro. You can make it even more agile by changing the head from FB to FBL using Dkfuji CNC-ed FBL head. However, you may then need to upgrade the Rx to a 3-axis version (Rx2610s) to be able to still fly the thing.
If you want FBL and power, get yourself a 4G6s with 3-axis gyro (Rx2610s), 2S motor, and change the head to FBL using above mentioned CNC head. Note that the Rx2610s talks 6 channel to the Tx, meaning that you do not have full control over throttle/pitch curves. I would still recommend this over the V120D02, as the 3-axis gyro (Rx2610v) has been shown not to have matured yet enough for advanced pilots. You may want to wait a bit for the next version of this Rx, because the advantage is that it talks 8 channel, opening more curve settings for you on the Tx.

Stock defined as in "including vendor-made changes" may help you a bit when visiting wowhobbies' site. They offer you a variety of 4G6 derivatives, with or without Tx, with or without 1S/2S motor upgrade etc.

I would also strongly recommend you to do at least two mods:


Tail clutch: there are different versions out there, but the easiest may be this one (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=2279586#post2279586). If done, it will prevent stripping of the front tail transmission gear.
Timewerx tail blades mod here (http://helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=2155795&postcount=43): these airfoiled tail blades way outperform the Walkera version, resulting in much better tail hold.


Hope this helps.

Ampdraw
09-10-2010, 04:35 AM
Either 4g6 2s
or V120D02 2s (look up this guys posts as to how he rectified the phasing issue http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=174297)
Or Spektrum setup with 2s. You can buy a used or bind n fly 4g6 and use the gyro or build one from parts.
Here's the gyro thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1261364
Here's the Spek 4g6 thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1145004

Amp

Jeff_Barrett
09-10-2010, 08:49 AM
I too like the fact that you realize that this little heli can be twitchy and quirky. If you keep this in mind, and are willing to spend a little extra money and time to set it up properly, you will not be disappointed.

4G6S ... comes with RX2610S 3-Axis Gyro

Then add:
dkfuji flybarless head
hp08 and xp12a motor/esc combo
oversky 400 (or 500) mah 25c battery

everything else is fluff for this little heli imo.... happy flying ;)

eightythree
09-10-2010, 10:05 AM
Man, you guys Rock! I can't believe all the detailed quick respsonses I've gotten already.
I expected to get a "Do a search" comments ;)



I'll have to do some more research as I got side tracked last night by Cap'n Morgan and flying my mCx :YeaBaby:




So, for performance wise... 2S/Upgrade motor?? or is it to heavy?

I want to try this little 3axis and FBL head mod just beacuase ;)
I know it sounds limiting, but sounds like fun!

But which way to go for Tx?? The Walkera radio actually looks pretty nice... But can I buy an Rx for it if I wanted to use it on another model?

timewerx
09-10-2010, 10:25 AM
So, for performance wise... 2S/Upgrade motor?? or is it to heavy?

I believe so. 2S + weight reduction. Ampdraw's 2S setup adds only 6 grams to the bone stock 4G6.

But if you do all my weight reduction mods except for the blades, you reduce weight by up to 20 grams and add 6 grams for 2S setup. You still end up weighing significantly less even than bone stock 4G6.:thumbup:

Those mods should give you the best attainable performance in terms of handing and thrust to weight ratios.

eightythree
09-10-2010, 10:42 AM
Your mods are crazy timewerx, you spend a lot of time tinkering with this little guy, eh?


Breaking down to a 4G6S w/ Tx and 1S upgrade motor.
I'll wait on that FBL head to be back in stock! :D

I may end up trying some Hyperion 25C packs..
Disassemble some 2S or 3S packs and use my own micro dean connects..

4 of those lipos and I'm good to go.. at 3C charge rates :D



Thanks for all the advice fellas, can't wait to get my hands on one!
this heli for sure will be a fun Shop and Dome flier this winter :D

eightythree
09-10-2010, 10:47 AM
So now my last questions....

Where to buy?
Can you guys post links to motor upgrades, and models?

I know of wowhobbies, but are there any other US shops carrying Walkera stuff?

thanks much! :thumbup:




:::: answering my own question...... Clubheli.com looks nice as well

timewerx
09-10-2010, 11:58 AM
I got my HP08-2 from clubheli.com and other Walkera parts.

Not sure if anyone has done a 2S with FBL yet. All 2S setups I've seen so far are flybarred, including Spektrum 1S/2S conversions.

I don't have that much time in modding actually. Took me 7 months to do all that. It only takes me few hours to conceptualize and prototype if I'm not busy, but ideas don't come everyday!:)

eightythree
09-10-2010, 12:06 PM
Ditto...

after a little searching it seems the 4G6 is best way to go price wise..

later on I can upgrade to the 3axis and FBL head.

again, thanks for all the info guys! I'll for sure let my thoughts known when I get one :thumbup:

Jeff_Barrett
09-10-2010, 07:25 PM
Man, you guys Rock! I can't believe all the detailed quick respsonses I've gotten already.
I expected to get a "Do a search" comments ;)

I've found the 4G6 forum to be the most friendly, helpful, and technically innovative of all the forums that I've been in. Truly a great group of people in this forum ... and often, we're ostracized in other forums for owning one.

I find the 1S version of the HP08 with a 25C battery has enough power to do just about anything. I can't comment on the 2S because I've never tried it.

I'm going to set sail with the Captain this evening.... :P

Cheers!

JossyRC
09-10-2010, 07:39 PM
I've been over on the TX and protos forums and didn't realize how good it is over here until I did.

Jeff_Barrett
09-10-2010, 07:47 PM
LOL! Yah... same thing here ... Trex and B400 forums for me. They have some good people there, but they also seem to have a lot of trolls or brand-snobs.

Ampdraw
09-10-2010, 07:54 PM
I got my HP08-2 from clubheli.com and other Walkera parts.

Not sure if anyone has done a 2S with FBL yet. All 2S setups I've seen so far are flybarred, including Spektrum 1S/2S conversions.

I don't have that much time in modding actually. Took me 7 months to do all that. It only takes me few hours to conceptualize and prototype if I'm not busy, but ideas don't come everyday!:)

Have a look at this little beauty:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15958107&postcount=224


eightythree,
Yep the micro flyers seem to be a specific "species". Always get good responses if you have queries...it's pretty awesome and a good bunch of blokes to "hang" with. :thumbup:

US vendors
Clubheli...haven't read a bad word about Rick...my choice if I was in the US
RChobbyhelicopter, once again a great vendor with good support...no bad "press". Usually more expensive and funny shipping cost process but that is to charge with accuracy which is a nice touch.
Wow...plenty of upgrades packaged as rtf....some bad reports of service etc but with volume and their blanket promo many less experienced flyers would purchase from them. In most cases you can make their upgrades happen for less $.

Regarding radio...
Two options only imo.
2801 pro V2.3 (get the latest firmware revision...just an email prior to purchase will get you that)
or
Go Spektrum so AR6300

One great thing about the 2609 rx...one that is in the 4g6...it is fully programmable just like a conventional 6ch rx. Curves, expo etc.

Btw you can get the loose cells ie no shrink 320mah 25/45C Hyperions from Allerc in the US for $3.95.

So if you want to go 1s
320mah Hyps
HPO8 18 or 20T, XP12A

Make sure you shim the head and snug the blades 'cause the 20T HPO8 headspeed needs it to remove vibes.
A couple of shim washers made from an old canopy do the trick for me.

Amp

JossyRC
09-10-2010, 08:02 PM
Not sure if anyone has done a 2S with FBL yet. All 2S setups I've seen so far are flybarred, including Spektrum 1S/2S conversions.

!:)


Sebastian has done a 2S FBL - think he is pretty happy with it. Sebastian is the guy with the Titanium parts. heli-service-nordost.de (http://heli-service-nordost.de) He uses his own SAVA BEC and the YGE esc which is a pretty good ESC from what I hear. (it has a GOV mod)

all-thumbs
09-10-2010, 08:17 PM
I've been over on the TX and protos forums and didn't realize how good it is over here until I did.

They're just lucky that they don't have my irascible presence to help upset their karma. Maybe I should pay them a visit and wax indefinitely about the virtues of the 4G6 as compared to their inferior helis.

Jeff_Barrett
09-10-2010, 08:41 PM
LOL!!! You've been much more entertaining and much less vexxing lately... I like you much better this way. :thumbup:

all-thumbs
09-10-2010, 08:48 PM
Thanks, man. I was going through a rough spell and was just determined to make enemies, I guess. Anyway, I'm off to the lake with my helicopters for the weekend.

Jeff_Barrett
09-10-2010, 10:07 PM
Thanks, man. I was going through a rough spell and was just determined to make enemies, I guess. Anyway, I'm off to the lake with my helicopters for the weekend.

We all have our rough spots ... all water under the bridge.

I was hoping to take my helis to the lake as well, but the weather is terrible here today ... cold, wet, and miserable. We actually lit our first fire of the seasons in the fire place this evening.

Oh, well - I was planning a complete maintenance on both helis this weekend anyway.

Have a good one! :thumbup:

eightythree
09-10-2010, 11:41 PM
wow, more nice responses! thanks guys! when I get more time I will look into more detail ;)

For now the 4G6 will have to be pushed back until colder weather settles in.
I just picked up a #83 for the price of an rtf 4G6! :D :D :D

hoping to to get it running properly this weekend, as my bud had a hard time with it earlier this year.
but what a great deal he gave me... stock radio, and Spektrum rx, extra parts, hitec servos, Align rudder servo.....

Whats nice is I got me a Walkera 2.4g Tx to bind to my 4G6 when I get one :YeaBaby:

:cheers

Jeff_Barrett
09-10-2010, 11:58 PM
I was going to go the nitro route, but decided that it was too messy and too finicky for me. Especially when the performance of electric is on par or better.

That said, it sounds like you got it for a steal and it will be super stable with that big 900mm diameter rotor. Just make sure the engine is tuned nicely or it might be costly. :P

Can't wait to get my 500/600 class ... might have sold one of my guitars this evening to pay for it ... keeps the wife happy. :o

timewerx
09-11-2010, 12:43 AM
Thanks Amp and Jossy! 2S FBL 4G6, non-Walkera electronics is something to look forward to if I ever get completely back to this hobby again!:YeaBaby:

JossyRC
09-11-2010, 01:01 AM
Thanks, man. I was going through a rough spell and was just determined to make enemies, I guess. Anyway, I'm off to the lake with my helicopters for the weekend.
RE: the new avatar...."hand check!"