Spectra G. Toxic 231, GY401 help.

[Zman39]

Actually I am using the CSM RL10, it may be acting up. I have a revlock in other heli I might borrow and see what happpens.

[Peter]

. Maybe your throttle setup is just bad ??? It should hover , with about 5.5deg pitch, with the butterfly about 1/3 open, maybe just a tad more .... So at your 50% throttle setting (hover point ) , thats when the butterfly needs to be at about 33-35% open ....

[Zman39]

Okay, I will check that. I set up throttle so endpoints stayed at 100/100, low stick fully closed, high stick fully open and the arms pretty much are parallel to each other. Is there a link on a better way to set a gas throttle curve since it isnt linear with the butterfly?

Z

[bigrcr]

Drop the Governor and give the machine a chance!

You must get the motor broken-in and set-up first or you will chase a box of beans forever.

If the motor is speeding up once it is in flight, especially around mid-stick (no load) then it is lean. Rich-en the high needle and then the low one just a bit.

Get the needles correct first and make sure there are no leaks and the muffler is tight.

Work on getting your curve set up second. The motor is not broken in yet and will not be 100% smooth.

Expect it to induce a tail kick occasionally and if the GY401 is not up to it, put in a gyro that is. Yes, as rbort says, make sure that everything is balanced (blades, tail components and possibly the fan) and make sure that the clutch driver/motor are parallel to each other. Any of these can add to an instability that can get a gyro uncomfortable.

BTW, a governor is NOT a throttling device. A governor is used to match RPM to load. This is why the governor manufacturers tell you to set-up the machine and get the curves correct before using a governor.

Only once each step is done correctly while setting up a machine ,can another "layer" be added. The machine should be right before adding the governor. Then when it is added, you will know what was changed and should be able to figure out what is going on. In other words you need solid baselines to move from when setting the machine up. When building, make sure everything is balanced. When setting up the radio, make sure everything is set-up 90 degrees and level before proceeding onto curve set-up and mixes. Properly done, only the smallest adjustments or none at all will be necessary at each layered step. The radio mechanical set-up step will point out building problems, the curve set-up will uncover radio mechanical set-up problems and so on.

BTW, check the coil wire shielding is not affecting the motors operation at all. Look at the boot at night while running the motor to see if any sparks jump the gap to the boot lead. If so trim these offending little wires back away and then the shielding will work as intended and not cause problems..Sorry about the rambling................

Hope this helps!

BIGRCR

[Zman39]

John, no rambling taken, I am absorbing every word you guys have to offer!!! MY only goal is to get this machine where it is flyable. I will richen it up and see how it performs in non gov mode and see if the speeds up stop. If so, I will work on my idle one and 2 curves. I guess what is throwing me off is hovering at say 28% 3/4 stick and then the next throttle point is 100, seems like it can easily jump up and I was thinking that was what was causing the speed up. Maybe not. If the speed up happens again, I guess I need to take heli apart to get to engine and see if I can find any loose bolts :(

I will tackle it some more today, just wish I had someone in my area experienced with this machine or gassers period, I am only gas guy I know of here.


Mike

[rbort]

Pack it up and head north to Massachusetts. I'll have it setup and running for you in no time! :-)

-=>Raja.

[rbort]

By the way, that 28% at 3/4 stick and 100% at full stick is absolutely why its throwing you off, but when the gv-1 is enabled it will prevent the throttle from opening all the way on full power climbout.

For example, if you are hovering at 28% at 3/4 stick +5 collective at 1550 rpms and you go full throttle it will climb at 1550 rpms at +10 collective at say 60% throttle. (with gv-1 on)

If you turn off the governor and go full collective to climb out, rpms will increase on the way up at 100% throttle until you reach your max possible rpms with your engine/muffler/needle settings which in my case is somewhere between 1750 and 1835 rpms depending on the ship/engine/muffler.

In simple terms yes you would need to turn down the throttle so it will climb out at the same rpms in normal mode (say 1550 is what you wanted for example). But for me I just leave it at 100% throttle and let the gv-1 do the work.

So with the gv-1 off, it is definately going to "overspeed" when you throttle up past 3/4 stick and maybe that is what is throwing you off and not an airleak or a lean condition which is not as likely.

-=>Raja.

[rbort]

Just to explain this gv-1 setup thing further for you:

Lets say you decide to run at 1550 in normal mode, 1650 in idle up 1, and 1750 in idle up 2.

You set your curves as follows:

N: 0, 20, 22.5, 25, 100
IU1: 100, 27.5, 25, 27.5, 100
IU2: 100, 32.5, 27.5, 32.5, 100

You take off and hover with gv-1 on normal mode. Should be at 1550 rpms.
You turn off gv-1 in flight. RPM goes up or down.
You adjust Normal mode point 4 up or down and redo test until no change in rpms.

You spool up on the ground mid stick (0 pitch), gv-1 on.
You turn off gv-1. RPM goes up or down.
You adjust normal mode point 3 (midstick) up or down and redo test until no change in rpms.

You takeoff again in idle up 1. Redo above to set point 4 (hover at 3/4 stick) and point 3 (zero pitch midstick) so no change in rpms when you turn on or off the gv-1.

Do it once more for idle up 2 speed.

Then duplicate throttle point 4 for hover for idle up 1 and 2 to point 2 (inverted hover) for idle up 1 and 2. This is why points 2 and 4 are the same for idle up 1 and 2, hover and inverted hover. Point 3 is no load zero pitch and you want enough throttle to maintain your target rpms.

Points 1 and 5 I set to 100% throttle at in MOST cases at full stick you want full power (if gv-1 was off) and if gv-1 is on it doesn't matter anyways.

Please note that all this WILL change if you richen/lean the engine. Changing mixture will change the throttle curves that would have matched the gv-1 selected rpms but the gv-1 will always compensate for that by itself anyways so its not a big deal down the road but I do this for initial setup ONCE I have the mixture where I want it and setup the throttle linkage to get a good reliable idle and have reset the limits on the gv-1 (idle, full, kill).

Make sense?

-=>Raja.

[CitationX]

Very good information rbort. I am continuing to watch this thread for when I get my Spectra going. Heck, if for nothing else it provides for a very user friendly set up instructions for a glo-machine as well.

[skiboy]

John ! what would make a spectra g with a 611 keep swinging to the right??

[bigrcr]

Sounds like the gyro is fighting the neutral or centering. Make sure not to touch the model upon power-up of reciever until the tail sets. Then put the gyro in Normal mode (non-heading hold) and lift the model into a clean hover. If the tail pulls to either side, correct this with the tail pushrod length until the tail does not pull to either direction, then put the gyro back into heading hold.

Later,

BIGRCR

[Zman39]

Well, thanks to the guys here as well as probably a couple hours on phone with Billme :D , the heli is doing better, not perfect, but better. The biggest change for the good was realizing the pot on CSM RL10 was for sensitivity and for some reason it came cranked up. Well I backed it off and no more wild throttle servo action. (thanks Bill). For whatever reason, I hadnt paid any attention to it, I thought it was for those that had to make manual rpm adjustments. Once this problem was fixed, the drifting in HH stopped as well. Now I am down to an engine that just hasnt found the sweet spot on needles(I think). I am not getting any fuel foaming but you can hear a slight constant "miss" in the engine which I think in turn is causing a tail shake. I just started my third gallon of fuel.

Mike

[Billme]

Mike, You need to just fly the crap out of it now...You have been hovering alot, and not able to clear the engine...Go out and ring it out...You should see it smooth out as throttle goes higher..Don't worry about what the tail is doing now...Get some time on it.... After going out and clearing the engine, you should start noticing a difference in the hover..If it doesn't change much after the next gallon, then lean it out a little on the high...
Bill

[Zman39]

Thanks Bill, will do. Hopefully I will get some weather that wants to cooperate with my schedule.

Thanks again for help

Mike