eRaptor comparison for AP setup

[Whirly-Girl]

Hello Guys!

I'm coming out of the AP wood work to hash out my next AP rig with you guys. I've spent the last couple of days hounding some people privately about Raptor configurations, mounts, and goals.

Let me preface this list with the fact that the electrical components in each one would be the same, so I'm not factoring them into the price difference. I also already have the necessary items to stretch and run 680mm TT blades from back when I ran my Raptor 50SE w/OS 50 Hyper. I stretched it according to the parts listed here by DJ: http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=13715&highlight=stretch+raptor

Electrical:

Actro 24-5: $299
UBEC: $40
HV-85: $179
a123 batteries: ?
a123 wiring : $12 ea

Now, for the Raptor part. This time around, I'm building a dedicated AP ship. I'm not converting my 3D nitro ship anymore. So, forget that I even own one. Here's the options using the lowest prices online that I've found so far at different websites:

Option 1 -

Raptor e620SE - $479.95 *Not an option for front mount, which I thought I wanted...now I'm considering Askman's new 360 underslung mount.
Metal blade grips - $49.99
Lower frame upgrade - $75.00
Total - $604.94

Option 2 -

Raptor 30V2 w/49BB - $309.00
Kasama Rotor Head - $219.95
Raptor Conv Combo-CF - $125.00
Total - $653.95

Option 3 -

Raptor 50 SE - $499.99
Metal blade grips - $49.99
Raptor Conv Combo (CF) - $125.00
Total - $674.98

Option 4 -

Raptor 50 Titan - $399.00
Kasama Rotor Head - $219.95
Raptor Conv Combo (CF) - $125.00
Total - $743.95

I'm obviously seeing that financially, it's more economical to start off with the e620SE and stretch it since it is already electric and eCCPM. Since I plan on chucking the longer boom and belt that comes with the Titan, it really doesn't benefit me to buy that kit. One thing I like about doing the Raptor 30 conversion is that (with Mark's advice) I'd be putting one sweet looking metal head on it that will be precise and long-lasting.

So, there it is, all 4 options that I'm looking at and considering. In all reality, I bet all 4 are going to perform great...don't I wish I could afford to try all four!?!?! :wink:

Thanks for any input and here's to getting active in AP again!

Jeanette

[rroback]

Get askman to cut you a custom mount, he can throw one together for the 620 I bet. Or, ask Gary Goodrum ( tppacks.com) his advice, as he's flown nearly every setup. I'd go with the 620, but that's me. I had a converted raptor, based on the 600ep frame, that I used for ap, but never used it on the job as I never got it set how I like. although that route is note the cheapest, i really like the 600ep frame.

Rhett

[AZ ChopperCam]

I'm going to be selling one of my Raptors. I plan to put it up on the forum by Thursday. It might give you a head start if you're interested. Pics and such later when I put it up in its own thread.

That said I think the Askman 360° mount is the one to beat for still photo work.

[Whirly-Girl]

Get askman to cut you a custom mount, he can throw one together for the 620 I bet. Or, ask Gary Goodrum ( tppacks.com) his advice, as he's flown nearly every setup.

I've already been in contact with Andrey and he is the one that tipped me off about the e620SE being too nose heavy for a front mount, but he was willing to try something. Man, I haven't even ordered a thing from him, but from the nice words that people say on here, I can tell he's a quality guy to deal with!!

I'm going to be selling one of my Raptors.

I would probably jump on whatever deal you throw out on the forum...I also know you have quality equipment. My husband is getting me this setup as a birthday present and I enjoy the build, so I'm probably going to stick to new. Well, maybe I'll have a looksy when you post...just to make sure. :wink:

[rerazor]

Start off with a TT e550 kit for $295 shipped then stretch it etc....

[WillJames]

You should also look at the G-FORCE head, it actually looks to be the best for fine tuning and wuality I have seen anywhere. Definitely get the metal grips.

Front mounts are cool, but the underslung are a lot easier to get rid of vibs from. The front mount is going to take some time to get right. I think DJ has it down to an art form. :)

Good luck with your new E-AP Machine, you are going to love it.

[miami6]

Go with option 4 save the money on the kasama head for a good charger and power supply

metal blade grips and a metal head block is enough

[Whirly-Girl]

rerazor, who has the e550 in stock for $295??? I'm have a difficult time finding it. I did find one for 315.99 plus shipping.

I don't know why I didn't think to put it in as an option. That could be the most economic choice yet. Thanks!

I'm going to check out G-FORCE as well Will, thank you.

[rerazor]

http://www.eastcoastextremehelis.com/

The Kasama products are a work of art.

[Whirly-Girl]

Sweet, thanks rerazor!

Yeah, I keep looking at pictures of both G-Force and Kasama...wow, the workmanship looks awesome. MLaBoyteaux was explaining to me how nice his Kasama head is and that the TT metal head develops slop b/c of the way it is mounted. The Kasama has that clamp style which I could see lasting a LONG time...expecially on a ship that isn't going to see any 3D.

[Whirly-Girl]

Update:

It looks like (thanks to rerazor) I have one of the most economical options put together now for building this AP-only machine from scratch.

Here's a look at the components and cost now for those who are also considering building an electric, dedicated AP ship:

Raptor e550 - $295 (free shipping)
Lower frame upgrade - $75
Kasam head block - $84.95 ($4.95 shipping)
-or- G-Force head block - $89 (free shipping)
Mavrikk metal blade grips - $0 ($49.99, but I already own these.)

For power:

Actro 24-5 - $299
Castle Creations HV-85 - $179
UBEC - $40
a123-M1 batteries (10s2p) ~ $200 each x2
a123-M1 battery kit (Four 10-cell) - $40

For Guidance:

JR 649 PCM Recever - $159.99
Crystal - $13.99
(3) JR DS821 - $56.25 (I bought 4 for $75 from someone's new DX7, otherwise they are $29.99 each.)
*GY 401 - $0 (I already have a new one.)
*Futaba 9254 - $109.99
--Normally, you would buy the GY401/9254 combo for about $189.

That puts this heli together for $1759.11 (with 2 batteries) plus a mount. As for the mount, I think I'm leaning heavily towards Askman's new Pan APLG fitted to a Raptor. $375

All that leaves is for one to pick out their camera system and downlink if you choose. I already shoot with a Canon S2 IS and I have a 2.4GHz video downlink into a pair of EyeTops that I've been using.

[askman]

another option for motor is the z50A-800. about half the price of actros and is working well. you do need etitan boom/belt combo to stretch. gary can probably match that price on the heli and give you good price on the power package/titan boom as well. might as well contact him and ask.

[rerazor]

Yep Gary can give very good combo deals

[Whirly-Girl]

I may consider the Titan boom running 620 mains, but I already have a JR Ergo boom cut down, an sdi belt, and TT680's that I was going to try first. I liked the idea that DJ proposed of having enough disc to auto fully loaded and still have control and hang time.

Is there anyone out there who has 620's on and has actually auto'd their full rig down?

What kind of temperatures are you guys getting from the z50A-800? And in what ambient temp? The CA summers up here aren't the coolest around...not as hot and dry as AZ, but we do get 100 degree days.

Most of those prices I quoted are off of Gary's website and I plan on taking all the business that I can to him...I didn't realize I could get an e550 as well. Thanks for the tip! :D

[askman]

sounds like you are covered. 680 will give you tons of lift. :)

[rerazor]

I'm currently running a eR50 conversion with the 620mm, G10 a123 frame kit, Z50-600 with the 85/10 gearing, 10s2p 4600 a123 battery's. 100% head speed in the 1900rpm range dialed down to 1800. Heli without the 360 askman mount is 10lbs. I can get 14 mins of just sport flying. With mount and camera I'm in the 14lb range and after 10 mins the battery's will "make" you land :wink: . Very happy with the setup except for the fact that I would not want to try to Auto with that much weight. I'm not that confident in my ability to auto in the first place. :arggg: Motor/esc/battery's all run very cool.

My 2nd setup (thanks to DJ) is the e550 stretch with the JR boom (uncut) running 710mm Mah blades and another Z50A-600 and the 10s2p a123 battery's and frame kit. I want a 1650rpm headspeed so with the 111t main gear and 12t pinion my 100% headspeed should be approx 1750-1800 which I will dial down. Already have the kit waiting for the rest of parts to arrive.

[Whirly-Girl]

Hey rerazor, what belt are you using to stretch to 710's? And it is the same JR Ergo boom as I have cut down, right? I just want to make a mental note in case I want to stretch even more at a later time.

I know I asked someone this before, but how do we calculate what main gear and pinion gear to get based on a target HS? So far, I've just been looking at other people's setups and was going to order the same gearing based on their succes.

Thanks guys!

[rerazor]

385t belt. JR Ergo uncut boom.

I use KC spread sheet with a lot of help from Gary to understand how to use it.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232166

Here is a screen shot with the 111t main gear being used and the Z-power motors and A123 battery's. Gary most likely has a more updated version (with more accurate perimeters to use) then this but this gives the ball park figures.

[Whirly-Girl]

Nice! Thanks for the link to that spread sheet. Boy, KC sure put alot of time into setting that up! I love using Excel to do all my dirty work!

[rerazor]

Its only as accurate as the information put in the component tab. That's where Gary comes into play for me.

[rroback]

I'd be a little hesitant of those servos. I have no personal experience, but a number of people reported that they had issues, something like the shafts shearing? I bought a dx7, but have no use for the servos. I'd test them out a bit, but I wouldn't hesitate spending more money of quality servos.

Rhett

[Whirly-Girl]

So far, Mark is using the DS 821's without a hickup. Before speaking with him, they were my first choice as well. Yeah, they're JR's newest, cheapest digital sport servo, but I think they are just what is needed...something that centers well. It shouldn't be put under large stresses flying docile AP missions. I think my DS8311's would be a slight overkill for this ship. Well, maybe I could see putting an 8311 on collective and 821's on cyclic. :dontknow

I'll report back on how my 821's perform after test flights. :)

[MLaBoyteaux]

So far (knock on wood) I haven't had issues with the 821's. They even survived a horrible boom strike without any stripped gears. Heli dang near totally destroyed itself and I was surprised that none of the servos suffered any damage.

[GGoodrum]

Sorry I missed this thread...

I second the argument for an e550-based version. Although I'm not sure the metal grips are necessary, even for 680s, you already have them so its a moot point. The metal hub is definitely something you want to do, and although the Kasama and G-Force stuff is sure pretty, I can save you some money with the TT PV0484 metal hub kit. Also, you should add the metal swash to your list, as the e550 kit comes with the R30's plastic version.

One of the changes that was made with the e550/e620SE kits is that they now have a new 111T main gear. While great for 3D setups, it is not optimum for AP/AV configurations at all. The 24-5 you are considering would only turn the blades to about 1300 with a 12T pinion, the largest that is commonly available. I'm going to use the beefier Raptor 90's 95T main gear, although I think the R30's 86T will be fine as well.

For power, I think the 24-5 is not the right choice for use with the a123-based packs. DJ and others are using it with 10s LiPo setups, which have a bit higher voltage. A 24-4 has the right kV. It is still a $300 motor, though, and the Z50As are proving to be just as strong and run just as cool. With the cost savings you can buy two more 10-cell packs. :)

I am running a Z50A-600 with the 95T main gear and a 12T pinion with two 10-cell a123 packs. The 100% h/s with my 620 NHPs is right at 2000 rpm, which I have dialed down for IDLE 1 to 1800. I leave IDLE 2 set to 100% for those times I need a little extra "boost", like when I don't heed the 10 minute timer warning, and power starts to dump. :D If you are going to run 680s, you will probably want the h/s down a bit more, around 1650, so I would suggest a 100% h/s around 1800-1850. To do that with either a 24-4 or a Z50A-600, which have nearly identical kVs, you could use the provided 10T pinion with an 86T main gear.

Here's what I can do as a package:

- E550 Electric Raptor Kit
- G10 a123 Lower Frame Kit
- PV0484 Metal Hub Kit
- PV0092 Metal Swashplate
- AK0031 86T Main Gear
- 4 x a123 Pack Construction Kits
- UBEC
Total: $600 Total with Z50A-600: $699
Total w/Z50A-600 + 360-Degree PanCam Mount: $1025

If you wanted the Titan boom, belt and longer boom supports, it would be another $35.

Let me know if you are intersted.

-- Gary

[Whirly-Girl]

Thank you Gary for the info. I'll be sending you a PM here in a sec.

I did not realize the performance difference of the motors and their relationship with the battery packs...I keep learning more about these e-machines each day!