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Rotorshake
11-01-2010, 11:17 PM
Thanks Jasmine2501 and RĒzĒ, I understand both of these, I think.

I don't understand how the heli gets off while transitioning between the four orientations. I can just learn what the stick movements are (not really what I'm looking for) or just move to the FBL 500 (no challenge) but would prefer to acquire the knowledge of why the flybared heli moves in unexpected ways while transitioning between the orientations.

I notice that when I fly square circuits in the garage with the MSR (counterclockwise) that when I make a left turn I need right aileron to keep anywhere near a coordinated corner. I don't quite understand why. I'll keep trying and thinking about the dynamics while doing so.

I'm probably not the only one who wonders these things so anyone want to step in or just point me in the right direction, I realize this might not be the place to ask these questions. Don't mean to hijack here...

Thanks again for all the help

Dennis

chakotay
11-02-2010, 12:18 AM
I notice that when I fly square circuits in the garage with the MSR (counterclockwise) that when I make a left turn I need right aileron to keep anywhere near a coordinated corner. I don't quite understand why. I'll keep trying and thinking about the dynamics while doing so.

Did you notice that the disk is not completely level when the helicopter is in hover? The heli has to lean to the right a bit (for main rotor going clockwise) to work against the thrust generated by the tail. The tail rotor counteracts the torque of the main rotor, but it doesn't generate torque, just force, so the net result is a force pushing the helicopter to the left which the pilot compensates using cyclic.

Now the same applies to turns. In left turns (again, considering main rotor going clockwise), the tail pushes the helicopter inwards, basically tightening the turn a bit. So compensating with right aileron may be needed. In right turns, the tail pushes the heli outwards so left cyclic may be needed.

The interesting consequence of this is that aileron tic-tocs are usually done "to the right", i.e. rotor facing the pilot, tail on the left because in this orientation the tail provides significant support for the helicopter.

im4711
11-02-2010, 04:02 AM
Took a while to get the video loaded last night. I put together my son and my flights. Was interesting to try and well we forgot to count,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmTmt2TxEyQ

Rotorshake
11-02-2010, 06:13 AM
Thanks Chakotay,

It all came clear, thanks for your patience. I'm really not that dense just hadn't fully thought through.

Dennis

Ah Clem
11-02-2010, 01:59 PM
My Turn...

This video really demonstrates that age is not your friend in this sport...

After watching it, I do realize that I did not spend nearly enough time at the points of the four point pirouette. The only part of the flight that is not completely terrible is the second slow pirouette (which is still pretty terrible).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-rWWRnso0o

I did cheat, by the way: I used an older, very heavy, fairly low performance helicopter, and the most precise Paddles and Tail Blades available (I wonder what those are?).


Sorry the video is fuzzy, but I did not shave today.

Bob O
11-02-2010, 04:30 PM
Great videos guys! I have lots of work to do to be as smooth as some of you.

snjbird
11-02-2010, 09:08 PM
Hi all,

My name is Matt and I'm new to the site and Heli's too. I've flown a lot of planes and have decided to take the leap into Helicopters too. I have a Blade 400 and an Axe400 from Helimax which I have begun learning my basic flying skills on. I'm being very patient and have been hovering well with the exception of nose in hovering, which I've only attempted on the simulator. Does anyone have any good tips for nose in hovering? I have no problems at all flying planes directly towards me but Heli's is a much more challenging experience.

Tips, be careful, practice lots, don't hit yourself, practice lots, Sim it a bunch, practice lots, don't hit anyone else, practice lots, and most important, have fun!

PS welcome to the freak my friend!

Cullen Colapietro
11-03-2010, 05:56 PM
Well, I still don't have any vid to add, and wont get my camera until later this month, I hope I won't be too late.

I think this thread is the best thing I've seen on HF in a while.

In fact, today I tried the challenge on my 450 in the wind and was able to control everything O.K., but not like I thought. I have trouble right side in.

As I was flying around a bit, I decided to save my last 2 packs for some basics and was astounded at how poorly I was able to fly some maneuvers I had stopped practicing because I was "beyond" them.

I'll spare the detals, but I think that the next challenge should be upright circles in ALL orientations/directions. I need to practice forward/backward inverted AND upright in at least one direction.

I am a firm believer that if I can FLY my heli (rather than repeat many comfortable maneuvers), I'll have a much larger bag of tricks to reach into when flying.

snjbird
11-03-2010, 06:57 PM
Here is my first try in the back yard tonight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1BHkWi1FWA

Not as good as RĒzĒ, but hey, he is better than me so ... there you have it!

sebsmash
11-03-2010, 07:43 PM
Isn't that pole for your basketball net in a terrible spot?;)

snjbird
11-03-2010, 08:33 PM
Of all the stuff to hit back there, that is one I have not! just off screen to the right is a small citrus tree, I hit that with my 250 today:roll: minimal damage, I broke the tail fin when it fell out of the tree?

Larry227
11-03-2010, 10:14 PM
Glad this thread got started though kicking myself for taking so long to find it. Here's my entry from a few weeks ago in the thread we started in the 500 forum. I have serious work to do on the slow piros and still need more practice all around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH0sIVWrfx0

dannylightning
11-04-2010, 02:18 PM
no wind today, it will be the first time i have flown my 500 in a no wind situation, no camera man today but i will let you all know how it goes. hopefully good. i think the slow pyros are going to get me

JAG1
11-04-2010, 04:50 PM
i had ago at this the other day,it's hard!!!!! but i like it!

dannylightning
11-04-2010, 05:50 PM
it went well besides the fact that i forgot to do the slow pyro's lol

Bob O
11-04-2010, 06:45 PM
Larry,

Do you have to fight the heli from wanting to climb at that particular area? Looks like you have a great spot if you ever wanted to do some slope soaring. :)

Larry227
11-04-2010, 09:39 PM
Larry,

Do you have to fight the heli from wanting to climb at that particular area? Looks like you have a great spot if you ever wanted to do some slope soaring. :)

I only fight it to keep it from crashing. :P

I love my field (http://www.helifreak.com/album.php?albumid=5185). Or whose ever it is. It's just a field behind the house that's like a community field. Quad trails, dog walking trails, kids sledding in the winter, etc. 99.9% of the time I have it to myself. :thumbup:

Bob O
11-05-2010, 01:13 AM
Everytime I see a flying area with a beautiful background, seems it's always in Canada.

Finless
11-05-2010, 09:06 AM
Wow guys! I am impressed and good job by all submitters!
Chakotay, no worries about altitude, the point of the exercise is showing orientation skills. Pitch control comes later ;). GOOD JOB!

Andyzboy, RaZa, larry227, im4711 good job guys! I LOVE seeing orientation skillz rather than stick banging coming from skillz learned on the sim. Trust me... I know at LEAST 3 guys out here in my area that can piroflip decent but CANT do this! They need to eat some CROW watching you guys :)

Richard (Ak Med ;) ) I expected more buddy..... HA! Just kidding you man... Good job you OLD man! I knew you had it in you! Now can you teach some of the young stick banger kids in your area to do that?

snjbird, I expected no less from you buddy! When you flipped it inverted I was watching for the same routine inverted! I was going to be super impressed... So what happened?

Remember, this is not a contest... I am not picking a winner.... This is about showing and working on orientation skillz and NOT being the "club stick banger"!

What you guys did by showing your BALLS, is showed you are taking the time to be at the proper level. Anyone else doing 3D flying that CANT do this, sorry... NO BALLS!!!

Anyway, AWESOME to all that submitted... Yes there will be another challenge soon but I want this to run a while. We all know there are guys here on the freak that have been "talking the talk" but haven't showed yet TIME to man up guys ;)

FYI, sorry for not being around the last few days. I have been in Windows INSTALL HELL as I got a new SSD hard drive and it turned out to be defective new. My PC just came back up after restoring from backup! BUT again... WOW... after coming back online and seeing you guys show some NUTS.... good job to you all!

Bob

snjbird
11-05-2010, 10:54 AM
Welcome back Bob!

I always hated the kid in class who read ahead and made the rest of us look bad! I should have just landed without the flip, I flew for another minute and did a small auto but I was exceeding the mandate of "the challenge" so I cut that bit out.

HeliBenj
11-05-2010, 11:25 AM
I only fight it to keep it from crashing. :P

I love my field (http://www.helifreak.com/album.php?albumid=5185). Or whose ever it is. It's just a field behind the house that's like a community field. Quad trails, dog walking trails, kids sledding in the winter, etc. 99.9% of the time I have it to myself. :thumbup:

Very nice, you must be the happiest man on earth (if you're not married of course :YeaBaby:)

im4711
11-05-2010, 08:17 PM
Thanks Bob -> it is as it is my son and I are trying the basics every time we go to the field. He is way more up to the game than I. I just think us older guys take a bit longer.
He can do some nice pyro flips too (I am far away from that). However basic orientation comes in handy to avoid crashing the heli if the wind screws you up or if it simply comes out of a maneuver unexpected.
Most of the folks at our field work on basics first.

dannylightning
11-06-2010, 10:13 AM
i just got a verry poor attempt on film and i will have it posted up shortly, i have 3 factors, i added extra expo and it was feeling sluggish, its about 25 degreese out side and i was freezing and it was making my uncomfortable doing this in my small yard. every time i tried to go nose left i freak out and pulled out of it.

but i will have my lousy attempt up shortly, usually i do better than this. but i am going to post it up any ways,.. might be a while till it uploads.


spot reserved for video

eDeK
11-06-2010, 11:14 AM
It is actually worse than I excepted... I did it better with flybar ....
Expo (2 pot) at maximum on the BeastX.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsNuWKZjjYE

Finless
11-06-2010, 12:13 PM
Looks pretty damn good to me eDek :thumbup:
I would have liked to have seen a bit slower piro but good job!

Bob