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weezbad
12-14-2010, 09:24 PM
this is a great thread...it has already improved my flying skills.:o

sarpilot
12-17-2010, 06:59 AM
OK Michigan Bob.... I accept "The Finless Challenge".... ;)

Oh I can hover, yes sir..... I can't do that warmup circle like you though.... Nice flying by the way and awesome nitro low down smoke/ action I want one.... Anywho, I don't know what it is. I can do maybe 270 and then I go into escape mode, although practicing just F3C hovering the past few days it seems better. Maybe I am scared of crashing doing what could be thought of as easy stuff (to you guys)? I don't worry about crashing more than anyone I guess just flying around but a stationary 360? AHHHHH

So what is the secret? Stick time.....

Best regards,
Tom

Jasmine2501
12-17-2010, 11:53 AM
So what is the secret? Stick time.....

Best regards,
Tom
Yes, after a while you'll realize that for each direction of rotation, there is a cyclic input that will keep you steady - but the amount is a matter of feel. Basically, you have to cancel the right-lean as you go around, and re-introduce it in the new direction. Think about that for a second... if you have a right lean, and you rotate 90 degrees to the right, then you have a forward lean and no right - so for right rotations, the cyclic input is back and to the right... follow me? If you find the right amount for your current rotational speed, you basically put the sticks in a single position and piro all day and just make small corrections.

So that's the other mistake I make all the time - my corrections are too big. Keep the corrections small, and your hovering will be smoother.

sarpilot
12-18-2010, 07:24 AM
Yes, after a while you'll realize that for each direction of rotation, there is a cyclic input that will keep you steady - but the amount is a matter of feel. Basically, you have to cancel the right-lean as you go around, and re-introduce it in the new direction. Think about that for a second... if you have a right lean, and you rotate 90 degrees to the right, then you have a forward lean and no right - so for right rotations, the cyclic input is back and to the right... follow me? If you find the right amount for your current rotational speed, you basically put the sticks in a single position and piro all day and just make small corrections.

So that's the other mistake I make all the time - my corrections are too big. Keep the corrections small, and your hovering will be smoother.

Wow great explanation! I never really thought about needing cyclic inputs like that.. So I guess for left stationary piro 360 it will be back and to the left some yes and these inputs will depend on rotational speed? Can't wait to try it later....

Thx....

;)

clicky
12-18-2010, 01:59 PM
Before I tried to follow what people said how to do sticks for some moves - and it rarely worked! What you need is to slow it down. First with sim and then with real heli. You'll read in this set of threads about slow piros. Just try to do them! Move nose in very, very small increments. Hover in all directions with slow rotations in between. Each time you move nose for, let's say 10-15 deg stop and steady you helicopter. It might, in the beginning be all over the field - but doesn't matter. If you can learn things one at the time it is going to be far, far simpler.

I started learning slow piros year and a half ago and at the beginning they were horrible. I would go with nose to 7 o'clock (CW) and froze. It took me a few sessions to over come that feeling at that direction. Also - when I started I needed pretty much 15m x 15m if not more for whole rotation and it was really all over the place. Slowly started getting hang of it and it started being nicer and tighter and managed to speed it up bit by bit. In the mean time realised that I stopped being capable of slamming rudder to one side and wait tail to get back - I *had* to be in control through the rotation. Also, I was doing them very low - 1-2 feet of the ground just to be able to slam the throttle back down and let it settle down in case I started losing it. As consequence of those nice slow piros I learned faster controlled ones, backward flying, to do nose in and tail in pie dish, piro circuit, didn't loose orientation since and generally gained far more confidence than I had before.

So, do one step at the time and don't give up! :)

sarpilot
12-19-2010, 09:27 AM
It's starting to make more sense..... too many lift and thrust vectors!
I think I'll try the 15 or 25 dgree and stop thing. I do real well in both directions until I just about get nose in but just cant bring myself to complete the circle.....

Jasmine2501
12-19-2010, 12:27 PM
Wow great explanation! I never really thought about needing cyclic inputs like that.. So I guess for left stationary piro 360 it will be back and to the left some yes and these inputs will depend on rotational speed? Can't wait to try it later....

Thx....

;)

Try a piro to the left and see what happens. My explanation may not work for you - we all have different ways of visualizing things. It's all about maintaining the right lean though. If you go to the left, you're swinging the nose into the upward side, and you still need to re-introduce the right lean - so you're still cyclic on the right side, but canceling old lean with forward instead of back. Do a 1/4 piro and don't try to correct right away - you'll see what you need to do.

One thing that really helped me with this is realizing that I have some time, before the heli crashes - it won't even get notably out of control for a few seconds if it's all tuned right, so you can relax a little bit. This helps get rid of my incorrect reactions, which happen a lot if I panic!

weezbad
12-19-2010, 09:03 PM
here is my attempt at this challenge... my failure to practice this sooner is quite obvious..i have been flying for 18 months and this was pretty tough for me.:o i fly very mild 3d but have been stopped in my tracks because i need this orientation training... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnH_vRffudQ

sarpilot
12-20-2010, 07:53 PM
Try a piro to the left and see what happens. My explanation may not work for you - we all have different ways of visualizing things. It's all about maintaining the right lean though. If you go to the left, you're swinging the nose into the upward side, and you still need to re-introduce the right lean - so you're still cyclic on the right side, but canceling old lean with forward instead of back. Do a 1/4 piro and don't try to correct right away - you'll see what you need to do.

One thing that really helped me with this is realizing that I have some time, before the heli crashes - it won't even get notably out of control for a few seconds if it's all tuned right, so you can relax a little bit. This helps get rid of my incorrect reactions, which happen a lot if I panic!

Actually now that I visualize it I can understand, you are moving the axis tilt 90 degrees in the direction of rotation..... I appreciate it!

;)

we'll see how it goes doing it that way.....

Bob O
12-20-2010, 09:50 PM
weez,

I see you had the same camera man as I had.... ;) Thanks for the vid!!

weezbad
12-20-2010, 09:57 PM
yeah, i tried the #2 today... i need a helper....:(

ATCEG
12-25-2010, 09:14 AM
Hi Bob,
This is a good challenge and glad it is back to basics. In the UK to be able to fly in a competition or an rc model show you have to have a B-certificate and the four point pirouette in this challenge is one of the maneuvers that you have to demonstrate proficiency to the examiners, amongst others, to acquire this certificate. Check out the attachment which explains the maneuvers. The top hat is the one I am having much problems with.

lazor 22
01-01-2011, 06:08 PM
Here is my attempt. Not as smooth as some others, but it's a 125 size CP so it's pretty twitchy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r02nhoFp2VE

Oh, and I realize I didn't hold one of the side in's long enough, I don't know what I was thinking...

Finless
01-01-2011, 08:20 PM
Pretty good for a little heli like that. Man that thing looks twitchy as hell around center stick? What heli is that? Might try some expo in the radio to help.

Bob

lazor 22
01-01-2011, 11:21 PM
That's the new walkera V120D05 it is tail heavy which makes it bible like that. It's much smoother without the canopy on where I can slide the battery forward more to get it good but I wanted to get the canopy in th video so it would be more visibale on tape. When I finish turning it into a "mini logo" it should have enough weight up front so it stays good. I have 10% expo in cyclics.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/airsoft_photo/New%20album/rcfleet2003.jpg

al_evans
01-02-2011, 05:27 PM
Here's me this afternoon with my freshly-built TRex 250SE, in the back yard with a GoPro Hero HD strapped on my head. :lol:

My available area -- I measured it -- is about 25' X 25'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc_tNsUc1qk

--Al Evans

Finless
01-03-2011, 03:03 AM
Good job! Small heli in a small area!

Bob

al_voisine
01-03-2011, 06:43 AM
Nice Job!

AL

Jasmine2501
01-03-2011, 09:13 PM
Yeah that was amazing! He does it while counting? That would be too much for me to think about :)

miszcz_waw
02-07-2011, 05:16 PM
My attempt done with a T-Rex 450 custom clone and filmed with turnigy camera mounted on my head.

Qc_pMgs0Nkw

zole
02-09-2011, 09:42 AM
My attempt with Protos 500

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scUaVB6ZKNQ

Finless
02-12-2011, 10:25 AM
Great job guys. Showing good orientation skills! Nice job on the extra points with the slow piro Zole! Miszcz, Love your boomerang blades ;) Yes I know it's the camera frame rate.

Keep up the good work guys!

Bob

Cullen Colapietro
03-13-2011, 12:28 AM
Here's a go on my new mcpx

http://vimeo.com/20972040

Fishjunky
03-14-2011, 03:22 PM
Went to the field this weekend and shot this. Heli is a Century Swift NX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZTGWhJjv0E

RichMaty2010
03-15-2011, 05:02 PM
LOL. I'll be surprised if they don't start smog checking those Bad Boys here in California......They just started smogging diesels.....WTH??? .....Maybe some good could come of this crap and they will start smogging smokers and cigarettes....LOL....Now that would be great....LOL...