View Full Version : Virtuall flybar for AP applications?
03-31-2007, 07:21 AM
Butt Crack Ball from above. :badair: :badair: :badair:
06-01-2007, 02:57 AM
Anyway, this question goes to MarkWebber. Is this how the two gyros are connected to the AP2000i to work on a flybarless system??
1) Rx Aileron output + GY240 Gyro ---> Connect to AP2000i (Aileron) ---> Connect to Aileron servo (CCPM mixing)
2) Rx Elevator output + GY240 Gyro ---> Connect to AP2000i (elevator) ---> Connect to Elevator servo (CCPM mixing)
3) Rx Pitch output ------> Connect to AP2000i (pitch) ----> Connect to Pitch Servo (CCPM mixing)
I just want to be sure before I take the final plunge. :mrgreen:
06-01-2007, 04:27 AM
That's it for the inputs. Be sure to use the correct servo outputs based on the swashplate diagram in your User Guide. Confirm that the elevator gyro is on the right or left side vertical surface and the aileron gyro is on a front or rear vertical surface.
Did you hook up the AP2000i prior to going with gyros? I might make things difficult during setup with so many variables all at once.
06-01-2007, 09:36 AM
Hi Mark. Yes, I've flown with the AP2000i (Century Swift) and flights are smooth and "buffered".
Phew!! Now I know how the connections are. Thanks!
With this set up, do I still need to change the Phasing to "90"? or leave it at "0"?
I'm thinking of using a non-HH gyro like the GY240. Would this be okay?
One last question, how do you know everything is working well before I fly??
Having an stable flight plus flybarless with AP2000i makes it an extremely worth-it buy!!!
06-01-2007, 11:20 AM
I recommend to any one trying this to start in rate mode. HH is definately a different feel.
Mark S (Oscillator) went with 240's and was happy with them. Just can't switch between modes in the air, not that I do much. I usually fly it in HH. The IR stabilization does not work quite as it should in HH, though. I'd stay with rate mode if you want to use stabilization.
Phasing should be adjusted as needed. To start, place the head inline with the tailboom and move the elevator stick. You should get no input on the blades. If this is off, you can adjust mechanically on your swash driver on use the phasing control.
To make sure your gyros are working correctly, while moving the heli, watch for the gyros to try keeping the swashplate level. I'd do one axis at a time to start with. Also, reverify that the controls are correct from the tx and IR stabilization.
Remember to start with a low gain setting. Going from lower setting then increasing is better. Too high and the oscillations can be nerve-wracking.
06-01-2007, 12:38 PM
Thanks for the inputs Mark. Invaluble!! :D
I will go with the GY240, mainly because of cost.
When do you go into HH when you are flying?? I can't imagine using HH for swash control. Am I missing something?
Thank you again for all the help!
06-01-2007, 06:10 PM
I converted my raptor 50 to flybarless to explore the capabilities of the AP2000i and check on the possibility of flybarless with IR stabilization. I started in rate mode per Angelos' suggestion. After talking with him about it, I decided to try out HH mode. While it does take getting used to, I prefer it to rate mode now. I hardly ever go into rate mode anymore.
Just this past weekend, I was breaking in a new motor on my raptor in quite gusty winds. Just to see what it would be like, I switched back to rate mode. The heli became quite challenging to fly because of the conditions. Basically, it was just as if it had a flybar on it. I switched it back into HH and finished out the tank with no troubles other than managing the collective because of the quick changes in altitude that you'd expect in such conditions.
06-01-2007, 08:48 PM
Right!! Got it! I'll be going with HH then.
One final question... Can you do inverted hover with your flybarless Raptor now? Is it possible?
06-02-2007, 07:01 AM
Except for the different feel of the gyros in HH, you're heli will do everything you could do with it before...except more quickly. The cyclic will now respond instantly to your inputs. I had to put some expo on it to make it less twitchy around the center.
IR stabilization will fight you in an inverted hover if you try to use it. The AP2000i prefers the heli right side up :wink:
I would still suggest starting in rate mode to dial in your set up. Then give it a go in HH.
06-02-2007, 09:55 AM
not to jack or go to far off topic but just an FYI....Vario has a FBL head that fits 10mm shafts and it's under $100. It was designed for the Silence and I think this would be the easiest route for those thatr want to give it a go without hacking into your existing head assembly. This would allow you to switch back easily if you weren't happy with the results.....
06-02-2007, 10:27 AM
Hi Art-T. Interesting info. Could you give a link on this Vario FBL head?? I'm interested. :D
06-02-2007, 12:44 PM
I am going nuts over this flybarless thing.
Someone tells me the CSM720 gyros are a better bet than GY401 to control the flybarless system. Whats your take on this? Do you know of anyone combining the CSM720 to the AP2000i??
06-02-2007, 03:31 PM
The AP2000i wasn't designed to work with digital signals. Spartan is coming out with their own high performance gyro and Angleos has told me that he'll work out a way for us to use it with the AP2000i.
In the mean time, the futaba will do just fine on the cyclic. The cyclic is not as demanding of the gyro as the tail is.
Thanks for the Vario suggestion. I would look better than my 'hacked' raptor head, I'm sure. I just have to decide not to go multi with it first.
06-02-2007, 07:13 PM
Link to the FBL vario head
I have one that was on my silence and I went to a benzine head. I may go back when I get the AP2000i and then maybe I can get the 330mah/min draw even lower. I'd love to get the runtime to 25 - 30 minutes staying within the 80% max capacity drainage. right now I only get 20min to stay within the safe discharge range.
06-02-2007, 09:02 PM
Thanks for the feedback Mark.
Looks like I'm staying with the GY401. Phew!! Cut the cost down by half!! :mrgreen:
I'm going flybarless - no retreat, no surrender!! :wink:
06-02-2007, 09:38 PM
Isn't the output signal from the GY401 also in digital form??? :dontknow
06-03-2007, 05:03 AM
There's a switch on the gyro to set digital or nondigital. Make sure you set it to nondigital.
06-03-2007, 05:36 AM
Oh good grief.... I forgot about that...... :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
06-03-2007, 11:51 AM
Okay. Just ordered two sets of GY401...
What delay settings do you put for your Raptor Mark?
06-03-2007, 02:20 PM
I'm not sure I've set mine up the best way possible but I haven't had time to experiment with my newest theories. I'm at 25% on the delay now.
Keep the limits above 100 and use the rates in the AP2000i to reduce the throws for those servos. I'm told the 401's work best when used at higher limit settings.
If you missed it in the beginning of this thread, you'll also need to move your linkage ball in on the servo arms to limit the travel. I put mine on the inner most holes. I think they could even stand to move in a bit more.
08-04-2007, 11:21 PM
Great thread guys! I've had to read it twice to get up date with all this gyro cyclic business :)
After literally burying my eRaptor 60 to the bitumen a month ago (it took chunks of bitumen off the road), I am in the process of finishing off the build on my Hurricane 500. The Askman camera mount, AP2000i and FMA IR Stabiliser somehow survived the crash and will make the move to the new bird, once all dialled in.
The Hurry550 is for AP and I look forward to this avenue of further stabilisation. Thankyou for a very imformative thread!
I just purchased Kookboys flybarless AP Logo 10 with two gy240 gyros. After reading this thread, and Borneobears it occured to me that if you are going to do flybarless and single man opperation you need at least 9 channels. Is everyone flying two man rigs? I have a futaba 9ch radio on channel 53 what would be the best 9 channel reciever to use for single pilot? I have typically used Berg recievers and have a berg 5 with 9 channel expander and a mini antenna I use on my trex ap ship. would the berg be relaible for a larger ship at greater distance?
08-13-2007, 02:24 PM
2 man rig for both of my Logo's. ... oh wait.. make that only one Logo now. :)
I've ordered a HeliCommand 3D from Belgium and will test and see how that works with the vbar logo and see how it compares to the AP2000i and the pair of gyro's.
From what I have heard/read from people who actually use it, is that they are impressed with the stab around cluttered areas where the horizon is not quite visible.
Bat, others will chime in. I'm only running a DX7 for the heli and separate DX6 for the mount/cam.
09-04-2007, 11:53 PM
Im awaiting the gyros for my flybarless, swashplate stabilised, AP200i integrated AP rig thingymabob, and in the meantime, i need some advice on wiring. The following pitcure is crude, and please feel free to rip it apart, so that i can get the wiring correct..
Just some additional notes to the plan, I hopefully going to try and use some 'Y' cables running off the two gyros so that they are turned from RR to HH by flicking AUX 1, and the gain of the FMA can be controlled via the AUX 2.
Any help greatly appreciated!
09-05-2007, 04:36 AM
Nothing to rip apart there.:thumbup: