AP stabilizer problem

[harrysvr]

Hello from Greece,
just started on AP with my heli(r60v2, OS .61wc-3*9252+1*3151)
but I have a big problem and I need your help, so I have a heli, and a diy photo mount. also a coolpix 7900 and a video camera panasonic nv-ex21.
With that mount I have no problem on capture video because the panasonic have an image stabilizer BUT the problem is when I shoot from my coolpix as you can see on the picture below, please help me find a solution to my problem.
Thanks




http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/849/dscn1010gt5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[/img]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/708/dscn0832cu9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Tonystott]

That looks like motion blur due to too slow a shutter speed. Have you tried sports scene assist?

[MLaBoyteaux]

Yep. Try a higher shutter speed. You'd also benefit by designing a gimbal which allows the camera to self level with some dampening. This helps to mechanically de-couple the camera from the helicopter and reduce camera movement.

How do you have your heli set up? Are you using any expo? Low rates? Flybar weights? Light weight paddles or standard?

[harrysvr]

That looks like motion blur due to too slow a shutter speed. Have you tried sports scene assist?
Yes its a blur and I had the shutter in auto :arggg: I`ll try tomorrow the shutter at 400 iso but there isnt any higher iso...
I didnt tried any sports scene, do you think its better than the 400 iso?

[harrysvr]

Yep. Try a higher shutter speed. You'd also benefit by designing a gimbal which allows the camera to self level with some dampening. This helps to mechanically de-couple the camera from the helicopter and reduce camera movement.

How do you have your heli set up? Are you using any expo? Low rates? Flybar weights? Light weight paddles or standard?
No expo, and recently changed the stock paddles for the red ones(raptor light weight), Do you think its better to replace them again(with the old ones) or to buy some weight?

Thanks for the reply both of you.

[Griffo]

Yep shoot in Sports mode. This will give you a higher shutter speed.. ie 1/1000, 1/1250 etc.

ISO is different to shutter speed. Higher ISO just means that you are boosting the sensors light sensitivity levels. I wouldn't worry about placing the ISO at 400 as this will only increase noise in your photos.

I use the lowest possible ISO levels that still allow for 1/1000+ shutter speeds for the given light. Try test shots on the ground to get your settings right before sending it up. :)

[harrysvr]

It has two modes : sports and sports spectator, the second one is when I`m moving?

[harrysvr]

It has two modes : sports and sports spectator, the second one is when I`m moving?

I went today to our flying field in my town for testing and here are the results: I used sports mode , and here are some photos of the heli and others from the sky, the problem is still existing in some photos and on others its better, WHY? ((All photos are from one flight)

These are images of my heli+mount

http://i10.tinypic.com/2ex7uyh.jpg
http://i13.tinypic.com/47ru6v7.jpg
http://i10.tinypic.com/2wfisjr.jpg

And these are the blurred images

http://i14.tinypic.com/2zibvyc.jpg
http://i12.tinypic.com/42v7391.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/2nb4n4j.jpg

At last here are some good ones (but not as I expected)

http://i18.tinypic.com/2lk7j7n.jpg
http://i16.tinypic.com/29kx2le.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/2afncph.jpg

So, why there is a difference between these pictures?

[MLaBoyteaux]

The heavier paddles would probably help. One thing I've found that also helps is blade tracking. I can look at the blades and they'll LOOK like they're in track, but if you study the mount, you'll notice a little wobble. I found sometimes a half a turn or two will reduce or eliminate the wobble, even though the blades may no longer look like they're actually tracking perfectly.

What you're doing is in effect, tuning the whole system. I've taken DJ's advice and also tried tweaking the position of the flybar weights to try and fine tune the balance.

Since you have no dampening designed into your mount (the camera is basically hard mounted to your heli) every vibration in your heli is going to be transferred to the camera.

Increasing the shutter speed improves the odds you'll get some clear shots, but you're only masking the mechanical vibrations that the heli is inducing in the camera.

Your off to a good start with your mount, looks like you've put a lot of work into it, but it's not going to help you get clear shots.

One thing you might try is to use bungee cords to attach the mount to the heli with. Tie them so there is some slack and the mount is hanging from the bungees, this will go a long way to isolating the heli from the mount and reducing vibration.

[harrysvr]

The heavier paddles would probably help. One thing I've found that also helps is blade tracking. I can look at the blades and they'll LOOK like they're in track, but if you study the mount, you'll notice a little wobble. I found sometimes a half a turn or two will reduce or eliminate the wobble, even though the blades may no longer look like they're actually tracking perfectly.


I didn't notice the tracking with the mount on but you think with the mount it`ll be out of trαck?
Yes there is a little wobbie but what do you mean about "half a turn..." because I`m new to the hobby.

[bat1]

Since you made the frame yourself, I recomend you impliment some vibration dampening. it is very easy to add some dampening by using rubber grommets.
If you look at this photo the cf plate hangs from the g-10 mount using bolts that are not fastened tight. the bolts are insulated from vibration by the rubber grommets.
The second picture shows a combination of rubber dampening for vibrations and a self leveling mount dampened by rc car oils shocks

[harrysvr]

Since you made the frame yourself, I recomend you impliment some vibration dampening. it is very easy to add some dampening by using rubber grommets.
If you look at this photo the cf plate hangs from the g-10 mount using bolts that are not fastened tight. the bolts are insulated from vibration by the rubber grommets.
The second picture shows a combination of rubber dampening for vibrations and a self leveling mount dampened by rc car oils shocks

You think I have to find rubber grommets(what kind should I search?) or to use something like that?

http://i13.tinypic.com/44lwghw.jpg
http://i13.tinypic.com/2vm95ph.jpg

[skycam03]

One thing you might try is to use bungee cords to attach the mount to the heli with. Tie them so there is some slack and the mount is hanging from the bungees, this will go a long way to isolating the heli from the mount and reducing vibration.

I agree with Mark, we had the same problem with a self made mount and solved the problem with the bungees. Just remember to let the mount hang from the helicopter as it would isolate the vibration.

Frank

[harrysvr]

One thing you might try is to use bungee cords to attach the mount to the heli with. Tie them so there is some slack and the mount is hanging from the bungees, this will go a long way to isolating the heli from the mount and reducing vibration.

I agree with Mark, we had the same problem with a self made mount and solved the problem with the bungees. Just remember to let the mount hang from the helicopter as it would isolate the vibration.

Frank
Can you show a photo of that bungee, I cant imagine it...

[dreslism]

Any exif data from blured vs. non blured images?

[bat1]

I don't know what supplies are like in Greec but at most hardware stores in the us they sell rubber grommets in the same section where you buy screws and bolts. I would look for grommets for a 4-5mm size bolt. here is a quick mount idea

[skycam03]

Can you show a photo of that bungee, I cant imagine it...[/quote]

Sorry, I don't have one but is very simple, instead of using the tie raps use a bungee, don't thighten them too much so you can slide them in your helicopter skids. You'll find out that when you pick up the helicopter with your hands the mount will start to separate from the heli. let it separate about 30 mm.

Frank

[harrysvr]

Can you show a photo of that bungee, I cant imagine it...

Sorry, I don't have one but is very simple, instead of using the tie raps use a bungee, don't thighten them too much so you can slide them in your helicopter skids. You'll find out that when you pick up the helicopter with your hands the mount will start to separate from the heli. let it separate about 30 mm.

Frank[/quote]


Isn't risky? its ok for lift off but when landing?
The bungee you say is it elastic?

[bat1]

you can combine systems by using loosely bound bungee cords, and gromets. that way the bungee does not have to be so loose. here is a google image search for bungee cords. It is elastic with woven fabric outside
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=bungee%20cords&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

[harrysvr]

Any exif data from blured vs. non blured images?
How can I find that info?

[harrysvr]

you can combine systems by using loosely bound bungee cords, and gromets. that way the bungee does not have to be so loose. here is a google image search for bungee cords. It is elastic with woven fabric outside
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=bungee%20cords&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Its ok now, I understand, I do have some and I`ll try them tomorrow, thanks all of you :D

[harrysvr]

Well, I went today for testing, as you can see I`ve put some grommets(looks like hard ones but are very soft) for isolate vibration BUT the problem is still exist as you can see in my today pictures...

http://i1.tinypic.com/2dtooxs.jpg

http://i3.tinypic.com/2uoow43.jpg

Bad picts

http://i12.tinypic.com/47jdjb5.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/2vhw64x.jpg

A little better

http://i13.tinypic.com/3535cvs.jpg
http://i12.tinypic.com/2m5krhd.jpg

[bat1]

The grommets work better if the camera is hanging from the vibrating frame rather than resting on top of the frame. if you flip your design around so that the small plate the camera attaches to attaches to the frame and the camera mount hangs from the grommets on the small plate. you may have better results. also when tightening the screws allow the bolts to be a little loose. Lock the nut so it does not come off but the bolts need to be loose enough that the connection is flexible. Hope that helps

[harrysvr]

Yes but i have to put bigger bolts higher than the camera to do that, correct?

[AZ ChopperCam]

use small bungees to strap the mount to the skids and let it hang by about 12-15mm. That combined with shooting at around 1/600-1/1000 shutter should eliminate the blurring.

Also keep that heli as stable as you can when snapping the shot.

Was it very windy when you took those shots??