Trex 450S RTF Questions

[WRC-RUSH]

Hi all. I just got my first Heli, RTF Align T-REX 450S 450XL CDE. Here's a link to it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:31&Item=120067688514

It says RTF but I'm not sure it is. I read the manual but still have a few questions:

1) Are the batteries initially charged ?
2) How long should I charge the batteries?
3) How do I check if the heli batteries have enough power before flight?
4) The batteries have 2 outlets: A) BIG (+/-)
B) Small (4 pins)
What/how is the use of the small (4 pin) one?
5) The receiver have the battery power outlet as well as a small 2 pin one. What/how is the purpose of the small one?
6) Do I need to trim/set the pitch before flying or is it done? How do I know?
I did balance the main blades before installation.
7) How do I turn the power ON on the HELI ? No switches.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

[broke-again]

Before doing anything I would watch the finless build & set up videos if i were you. Go over the heli and check everything is set up correctly, no loose screws etc.

If you have no experience flying helis, get a sim before trying to fly your heli. FMS is a free programme that you can download, just google for it. It's nothing fancy, but will help you.

I dont see any mention of a charger in the package, did you get one with it? If not you will need to get one. Batteries are usually half charged at the factory. The four pin connector is for connection to a balance charger. The two pin on the receiver is for the crystal. YOu should have 2, one for the TX, other for RX

I own the same radio (TX). pm me if you get stuck.


As for Q7, the power comes from the speed controller when the battery is plugged in. But again, dont do anything until you watch the videos and get an unserstanding of how it all works.

[skunkworx]

You should check out Radds flight school (google it). He has a lot of good beginning flight instructions. Another thing would be to see if there is a hobby shop near you that has Trex stuff, (chances are they do) and ask LOTS of questions from peeps who know about your bird. There is a whole world of knowledge you have to go over before you can get everything running just right, but don't be intimidated by it, you can't eat an elephant in one sitting, you do it one bite at a time, so....take it step-by-step. Go through each setup vid by Finless and take notes on what will help you build your bird (ie...servo position, tools you might need, recommended parts, tricks to save time and frustration etc...).

Having a sim will really save some money and show you how to keep from dumping it on your first flights! While it won't be exactly like the real thing, it will familiarize you with the controls really quick withou worry of crashing a pretty, new heli! Plus they have planes on the good sims in case you ever decide to fly planks as well!!! Have fun, good luck!

[WRC-RUSH]

I dont see any mention of a charger in the package, did you get one with it? If not you will need to get one. Batteries are usually half charged at the factory.
The two pin on the receiver is for the crystal. YOu should have 2, one for the TX, other for RX



Thanks for the quick reply guys. It did come with a charger, but no instructions on charging times etc. The charger is model : PRS-Z30US 12 by MIGHTY POWER BATTERY?

About the 2 pin, it is coming off the ESC, not the receiver, my mistake.

thanks again.

[skunkworx]

It kinda sucks to say it, but you might want to ditch the charger that came with it and get a decent charger that gives a readout and has cutoff voltage levels. Don't take my word as gospel, but usually those "included" chargers aren't very good. You want to be able to charge up to 4.16V/cell and make sure you don't run down below 3.0V (9.0V-12.48V/3 cell pack to avoid over discharge/overcharge). Unfortunatley these batts are really picky so you might have to baby-sit your batts if it's just a plug-in type charger (ie similar to a NiMH charger). Make sure you do some reasearch on it to be certain.

Good luck! :D

[bullaculla]

I would check it over and rebuild if anything. I heard a few people recieve stuff from rc-expert and things were build kinda sloppy. check for thread lock.

[Pinecone]

My suggestions:

1) Take out EVERY bolt/screw that threads into metal and put blue Loctite on it. My SE swash had Loctite on only 2 of the 8 ball screws.

2) Get some better blades. Tech Model Products has some nice woodies for $28 for 3 sets. The included fiber blades are OK as paint stirrers, not good as blades.

3) When you do the Finless videos, go to the HDX300 section and get the gyro setup video. The Telebee is WAY different setup and you want to check that carefully of the tial may get away from you when you try to fly.

4) Those batteries will be OK for hovering, but not much more. And I agree with getting a better charger. The small 4 pin plug is a balancing plug to use to make sure all 3 cells have the same voltage. A good balancing charger for not too much money is the FMA CellPro 4, get the A123 version as it has some extra modes for $5 more, cost from FMA is $65.

5) Radd's Flight School is very good. http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html

[bb16]

Hi all. I just got my first Heli, RTF Align T-REX 450S 450XL CDE. Here's a link to it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:31&Item=120067688514

It says RTF but I'm not sure it is. I read the manual but still have a few questions:

1) Are the batteries initially charged ?
2) How long should I charge the batteries?
3) How do I check if the heli batteries have enough power before flight?
4) The batteries have 2 outlets: A) BIG (+/-)
B) Small (4 pins)
What/how is the use of the small (4 pin) one?
5) The receiver have the battery power outlet as well as a small 2 pin one. What/how is the purpose of the small one?
6) Do I need to trim/set the pitch before flying or is it done? How do I know?
I did balance the main blades before installation.
7) How do I turn the power ON on the HELI ? No switches.

Thanks in advance for all your help.
im just curious did it arrive because i saw it as well but then i looked at his feedback because his feedback looked a bit odd, with all the odd names (knew someone who got scammed by a power seller with fake feedback)

[WRC-RUSH]

im just curious did it arrive because i saw it as well but then i looked at his feedback because his feedback looked a bit odd, with all the odd names (knew someone who got scammed by a power seller with fake feedback)

Yes it did in very short time with everything included, and nicely packed.

[WRC-RUSH]

I ordered Align Lithium Battery Charger RCC-4CX and Pitch Gage from tech-mp.com . I checked all the screws on and they'r all tight and has threadlock. I didn't like the ESC and Receiver location though, (ESC on right side and RCVR on top front). I might change those later on.

I do have a couple more questions though:

1) Do I need to set the Gyro, Pitch etc. or is it Ready To Fly as it says? how do I know?

2) According to the manual, the location of the rudder servo should be where the servo arm at 90 degrees while the tail shaft at middle way. It was not that way, the servo was way towards the heli body while the arm was way back. I did adjust the postion of the servo according to the manual. Do I need to reset the transmitter to the new position? how?

3) The antena cord is way too long; when put thru the antena tube, hangs out about 6-8" in the back. should I cut it shorter or just loop it before/after the tube? Will this affect the range?

Thanks again guys for taking the time to help, I really appreciate it.

[skunkworx]

To answer your questions;
1. I'm certain you will need to fine tune your gyro settings. if preset, they are probably rough set and just made in order to see if it will spool up/simple quick hover. The pitch might be close as well, but you will need to double check it (roughly 11 degrees + and 11 degrees - pitch). You will probably need to check your end points on your radio in relation to servos. Definately check out setup vids by Finless. Usually RTF kits overall will fly (well, sort of :shock: ), I wouldn't try hopping/hovering it yet. One thing you could try is tape it to the floor and CAREFULLY spool up to check throttle (keep it under 50%!), blade tracking, lightly check control surfaces (cyclics). Mostly look for any abnormalities such as; vibrations, glitches, screws flying off smoke...you know, the obvious stuff!!! If everything is on spot ( or seems that way) you can try Radds flight school steps. You probably won't get it light on the skids for the first 1-3 battery cycles if you do it right. If anything is out of whack, it'll show long before you get it airborne!

2. You will probably have to do some adjustments on tail inputs, it's hard to tell without looking at it. Not to sound like a broken record, but Finless's vids will explain a lot on setting tail and main servos. You can also try Trextuning.com. I haven't had much time to check that site out yet, but it's another resource if you want/need a second opinion. The good thing you will have it all figured out before you know it! :D

3. The antena wire shouldn't be too much of a worry, just let the excess hang out of the end of the tube. You can run it back if you wish but you might want to run it over to the other side diagonally underneath the bird to increase your surfce area. Cropping the wire is not a good idea as it decreases the ability to pick up the signal. Keep the wire away from all power wires to avoid inducing noise into your reciever. Hope this helps! Get as much advice as you can before you go wailin' away on though!

[WRC-RUSH]

I did set the Gyro and tail pitch with the radio and it works fine according to finless video. I did not try to fly yet, I want to be sure that everything is ok before I do so.

I need few things to know:

1. I disconnected the motor and tried the controls to see if everything is ok. The tail/rudder seems fine after setting it up. Not sure about the head lock mode and normal mode pitches though. I set it to Normal -20 and head lock +32. It doesn't look much of an angle when in head lock though. is that ok? My radio is the Futaba 6EXHP.

2. When starting up, the throttle stick all the way down, the blades look paralell. taking the throutle up, the blades start getting a bigger angle till the stick is about 75% of its way up, a nocking/cracking noise started to come out of the head/servo maybe?!! I looked to see if there's anything stock or held, but couldn't find it. Any ideas?

3. I'm not sure about this but, does IDLE UP mean 3D mode? should the throttle stick then be in the middle so the blades are parallel? how do I get to that mode? when moving the IDLE UP switch up/down on the radio, nothing happens!

4. Should I learn to fly with 3D mode so I get used to it or in normal mode as it is now and change in the future? would that be a problem getting used to it later?

5. There is a throttle Hold switch (upper right corner), what is it for and how to use it?

6. Any info about the Futaba 6EXHP from you guys who has one would be greatly appreciated. In finless videos he shows a setup on the 7C futaba which is quite different.

Thanks again.

[skunkworx]

WRC, This will take a little bit of explaining so bear with me!

1. The Head Lock function has to do with your gyro and being able to keep your tail 'locked' at a fixed position independant of cyclic inputs. Try this; Turn your bird on (let the gyro initialize) then pick it up, nose in. Gently fan the tail side-to-side(swinging the tail 1-2ft.), you should hear the tail servo 'counteracting' the applied forces. if this loses you try Googling "head lock mode", click on the first listing and you can read up on this stuff if you like. As for settings, it's up to you and how you fly. Sorry I don't have exact settings to go off :(

2. The clicking sound you are hearing is probably from your servo gears hitting their stops. You have to adjust your servo arms to be at 90 to ensure full throw is possible(this is a little harder to explain, so if you don't get this, re-post and I'll try to explain it better). Once this is completed, then you can adjust your blade pitch angles. If your left stick (mode 2) is down, your blades should have negative pitch regardless of your idle up switch position (i.e. '3D switch'). About 11 degrees negative to 11 positive pitch should be your normal range.

3. The IDLE UP switch is "3D mode" what this switch does is revs the motor up to a set RPM level and keeps it there completely independant of throttle/pitch inputs (left stick vertical movements). This allows you to use the NEG. pitch of the blades (the ones you setup in the last question). You can have 2 different settings for this hence the three position switch. This function is COMPLETELY controlled by the transmitter, so if the switch has no effect on the heli (you have to spin it up to find out if it's programmed in or not) then you must manually program it yourself.

4. No, you should not learn to fly in this mode, reasons; (1) the rotor will spin a lot faster and is a LOT more sensitive to inputs. This should be considered "Expert Mode", especially if you are trying to set your heli up. I really wouldn't mess with this too much for now. (2) more damage will occur if you hit something or if parts decide to come flying off! (I wouldn't say it if it weren't true!) (3) because you have lighter inputs, the heli will get out of control a lot quicker than you know how to react to, trust me, the controls are going to feel WAAAAYYYY too sensitive in normal mode to begin with anyways! You should invest in a flight sim if possible...this will teach you a TON about the flying characteristics of your bird a lot quicker (and more painless!) than someone trying to eplain it.

5. the throttle hold switch has a dual purpose. (1) SAFETY,SAFETY,SAFETY! This keeps the motor from spinning up if you have your throttle @ 100% (or reversed) when you plug in the battery. (2) Autorotations. This is a safety feature for helicopters in case you lose ppwer to your motor. It allows your servos to still move while the motor is no longer imparting power to the rotors and being able to gently "crash land" your bird. if you perfect your technique doing autos, you won't damage the heli at all! Once again, I recommend you get a sim to try this. The first few times I tried it I failed miserably, so save your money and do it on a sim before tying it out on the real thing!

6. Sorry, I don't use Futaba, keep asking around. Someone is bound to know what to do with it.

[WRC-RUSH]

Hey guys, I have one more question:

- In finless videos for the CCPM setup, he shows how to set it up for 3D (Stick at middle = 0 throttle). My radio is currenlt setup to stick all the way down = zero throttle. Do I have to reset the radio to 3D according to finless or is it a flip of a switch/mode?

Thanks in advance.

[Pinecone]

Look at the Throttle and Pitch Curves 101 video.

[skunkworx]

Your "Idle up" switch is on upperleft hand side. This is a three position switch, you can set 2 different head speeds on this switch. The 101 Vid should show you how this is done, but you will have to double check it with you manual. Good to see you are still getting advice on setup, it can get a bit messy if you can't tell what is what! Let us know if you hit any other problems :D

Did you figure out that clicking noise? Any binding or interactions happening?

[WRC-RUSH]

Your "Idle up" switch is on upperleft hand side. This is a three position switch, you can set 2 different head speeds on this switch. The 101 Vid should show you how this is done, but you will have to double check it with you manual. Good to see you are still getting advice on setup, it can get a bit messy if you can't tell what is what! Let us know if you hit any other problems :D

Did you figure out that clicking noise? Any binding or interactions happening?

LOL I seem to have quite a few problems indeed. This is my first Heli so I might be asking dumb question here and there, I'm still not familiar with how all this 3D/Idle-Up process works. Is it while flying in normal mode you switch to Idle-up or before flying? how? etc...

I checked the curve points in my radio and they are set to 0-25-50-75-100 for both normal and Idle throttle/pitch. My Idle switch has 2 positions. When I flip it up (Idle-Up), the swash plate goes down slightly (about 2mm/less than 1/8"), and then the seesaw looks more levelled with the arms, but the blades get a slight bigger pitch. All this is happening while my throttle stick is all the way down. If I put it in middle position, the swash plate goes up and I get a bigger pitch. While at middle position, flipping the Idle switch does not change anything. (All this is done while motor is disconnected).

Do I need to reset my curves or reset/adjust the head/swash plate so they're leveled when the throttle stick is at center?

The clicking noise is from the left front servo. sometimes it does is and sometimes not. It could be because sometime the fly bar is moving or just a defect in that servo. I didn't see anything interacting.

[skunkworx]

Dumb questions? Nonsense! EVERYBODY goes through this stage in heli flying! Ask away. :D
1. 3D-(When) you get it off the ground a few feet, you flip the switch and the motor revs up and stays constant, the pitch is then able to go up or down (POS or NEG pitch) without changing head speed (ie how fast the blades are turning) which allows you to fly inverted. (the switch on the right should be your throttle hold switch) unless they are opposite on your TX, by the way, What TX do you have again. I'll dig around and find some answers for you tomarrow if I can.
2. (Curve point change) I don't think so, that is how they should be set for normal mode. See below for help on this!
3. Did you get your servo arms set to 90? If not, can you view the 'Finless Bob' videos? Start out at;
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/trex450&filename=CCPM_Part_1.wmv
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/trex450&filename=CCPM_Part_2.wmv
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/generic&filename=curves101.wmv
If you can, download and watch ALL of these vids, they are chocked full O' helpful info that will get you going a lot faster than asking about it in the forums. If you still got questions, I'll answer them or find something that can

I'll post more tomarrow or edit this posting if it doesn't make sense to you (or to me for that matter! :shock: )

[WRC-RUSH]

Hey man, thanks a bunch for your help, I really appreciate you taking the time. I did watch all Finless vids and set the servos and everything. I only wasn't sure about the 3D setup. I have the Futaba 6EXHP transmitter.

As of right now I've gone so far:
1. Checked all the screws for looses and Secured everything.
2. Set the Gyro and tail rudder.
3. My swash plate is levelled but the seesaw and arms are not perfectly levelled
when stick at lowest position, neither at midway. When stick at lowest and Idle
is Up, then swash goes down slightly and everything is levelled.
4. Checked all the endpoints and curves according to the vids.
5. Levelled all my servos mechanically as much as possible and trimmed the rest.
6. Balanced the blades.
7. Still gotta do tracking, I haven't done any runs yet, the weather is not helping
much up here :roll:
Please let me know if I forgot anything and thanks again.

[Pinecone]

Actually I switch to Idle Up after spool up and before takeoff.

WIth the stick in middle to upper half, the swash should NOT move when swtiching from Normal to Idle Up. IN the lower half of travel it should because you should set up less negative pitch range in Normal.

If the pitch is moving, you might have hover pitch setup. You will want to go in and Inhibit that function if you have it. Also check the trims, as some Txs have memorize the trims for each condition separately. IIRC the 6EX doesn't have sub trims, so if you used trims to tweak teh servo arms to 90 degrees, you will have to go in an set the same trim settings for Idle Up.

If you set things up right, flying in Normal will be fine as long as you don't go inverted. You can set the headspeed to whatever you want in the upper half of the stick range. It is just a good habit to fly in Idle Up so if you start flying anything that needs more negative pitch, you won't find out you forgot to switch out of habit. :)

[skunkworx]

OK,OK,OK,...check it,

If you got your bird setup MECHANICALLY, to 0,25,50,75,100 then this will be easy.
Set your curves on each of the 5 points as follows; (Page 14 in your manual :D )
NORMAL (mode 0)
PITCH curve to;
40, 45, 50, 75, 100 (this is -2, -1, 0, +6, +11 pitch)
THROTTLE curve to;
0, 50, 80, 90, 100

3D (mode 1) [page 15]
PITCH curve;
**0 - 25 - 50 - 75 - 100, this gives -11 - -5.5 - 0 - 5.5 - 11 in actual pitch**
THROTTLE curve;
100, 95, 90, 95, 100

(I have them in reverse order to the manual [throttle, then ptich], but you'll get it as soon as you look at it, this is the order of things in the video [pitch, then throttle) :mrgreen:
These will give you both sets of curves needed, **IF you have it set up right to begin with!
The throttle curves will allow smooth, controlled inputs on the heli (good for a beginner) and shouldn't cause a big glitch if you were to switch into 3D mode.
You can change these values later down the road but I doubt you will need to :D The 'Curves 101' vid explains all this, but I suppose the abridged version is what you were after :wink: But I still recommend watching it to fulfill your knowledge on the matter!

**edited/correct settings (Thanks Pinecone!)

[skunkworx]

The main reason for not switching into 3d to start is that you will have a lot of neg. pitch and that tends to suck up dirt, grass and rocks :shock: into the rotors which is not good! If you have it set in normal mode you might have about 2-3 degrees of neg pitch and it reduces the 'suction' created by the blades. (this might sound stupid becaues dirt starts flying everywhere when you give it positive pitch and throttle, but the key here is *reducing* the amount of crap we are dusting our helis with! (quoted info from the vids with my words. Thanks Finless!)

Also, setting your NORMAL pitch this way only affects the negative spectrum of the throttle/pitch curve when below 1/2 throttle. (you won't hover until you are almost sitting at 3/4 throttle in normal OR 3D mode anyways!)

So try that stuff out and let me know if you need anything else! :glasses2:

[Pinecone]

You got the Stunt (Idle Up) pitch curve wrong.

It should be 0 - 25 - 50 - 75 - 100, this gives -11 - -5.5 - 0 - 5.5 - 11 in actual pitch. They way you have it the pitch curve runs from +11 pitch to about +9 at mid stick to +11 at high stick. :) The throttle curve is about right.

The reason you start in normal mode is because at low stick you have 0 throttle, and as you move the stick up to mid stick, the motor spins up faster and faster. If you turned things on in Stunt (Idle Up) you will strip the gears as the motors tried to go from 0 to full speed instantly.

Only different setup is a Kontronik Jazz which you can start in Stunt because of the very soft spool up. And with it, you need to spool up at the proper throttle setting and 0 pitch to allow the thing to sense the setup.

[skunkworx]

Oops! :oops: Guess I confused myself while writing down the numbers (referenced from the video 'curves 101') and edited listing.

Thanks again Pinecone (& Finless!) :D

[WRC-RUSH]

Hey guys, I took all the links apart and reset everything from scratch, moved servo arms around to get the best fit and so on according to the vids step by step. RC-UNIVERSE did a lousy job on it, the bird wasn't even set for 3D, didn't even have zero pitch anywhere, was wayyyyy offf :soapbox

So I took my time and did everything the right way. I couldn't get more than +10 degrees of pitch at max stick though. I got -11 degrees at min stick. I double checked everything and tried playing with the rods like Bob shows in the video, but that's the closest I could get.

My radio (Futaba 6EXHP) is different from the one Bob shows in the vids, I don't have sub-trims and my Idle switch only has 2 positions (Normal/3D). Also the Gyro settings are diff.

Speaking of Gyro, I got everything set according the video. I have a TeleBee Gyro (head lock & standard), not the GY401 that Bob shows in the video. I'm not sure about the gain settings, anyone has the same gyro out there? please help!

I set it to +50% for both standard and head lock modes. That moves the tail blades in the direction in which they would move when moving the rudder stick to the right (tail to the left). Is this right? which way the main blades cause the tail to move? same or opposite direction? :dontknow

The gyro direction is currect according to the video though. It moves the tail hub against the direction of tail movement.


Thanks again.