Kasama Head, binding at top links, discussion ....

[OICU812]

Ok so have a Kasama Head on my ERappy 620SE. Problem is that trying to get the maximum collective and cyclic does not seem to be acheiveable. So far I found no one that actually is running the Outer hole on short side and the inner hole on the long side with sucess. I am specifiaclly talking about use of this Kasama head with the "STOCK" swash for the E620 and the Raptor 50SE, NOT the Xero G swash etc...

So far Johan is working on a solution, I would think a modified seesaw to locate the top mixer closer to the main block would do it as long as the gemoetry is not affected. This is his proposed solution, which sounds like it may be the answer.....we'll see.

Here are some pics to show what the issue is. In short the issue is in trying to use the inner long side, and outer on short I can not obtain past 10.5 pitch and past 5.7-6.0 cyclic woithout having the top link from swash "bind" to where the top link presses tightly against the head and the linkage actually bends outwards. Obvioulsy this is simply no good so I had to move the balls on the outside on both sides of top mixers, this yeilds a pretty slow roll rate, for me at least......

Note** I also even have a cyclic ring installed, so this is happening without actually venturing into the "extreme" corners, in fact the binding happens at top middle, :(

[OICU812]

If "ANYONE" claims they can aheive 11 pitch or better and at least 6-6.5 pitch on these settings. PLEASE provide a picture or something to demonstrate it, I can assure you that with the E620 and its' swash it is "NOT" possible.

[TonyTypeS]

I can get 12 deg of pitch and 9 deg on the cyclics with no problems but then again im using the Zero G swash. I had the same problem as you when I was using the stock raptor metal swash. The link would bind at 9 deg of pitch with only 6 degrees on the cyclics.

Well the only way to fix the problem is to:
1.) maybe shave off part of the rotor hub so that it would no touch the link.
2.) put a bend in the link so that it would not touch the hub. I know it sounds dumb to do but it you search around you will find that some heli's have that in the manual. I can't remember where but it states to put a bend on the links. I had to do that on my Eco 8 electric heli and haven't notice a problem.
3.) you could put a washer or a thin colar on the swash plate ball. (the ball that the link is binding on). This would make the stock raptor swash just like the Zero G swash. Very cheap and easy to do. All the colar does is spaces out the link so that it would not bind at the extreme settings.

I also found out that the flybar oval links bind at full pitch with a max cyclic movment. For me the only way to fix that was to shave the oval link so that it wouldn't bind. I will see if I can post some pics to show you what I mean.

Currently I have my raptor setup at 12 deg on the the pitch with 9.5 deg on the cyclics. Yea some people said that it's a waste to do that and that yo do not gain any benifits with that much pitch and cyclic. Boy they just haven't flown mines yet. I am loving the way my raptor flies with the kasama head. I did notice a differnce on flight between the stock head and the kasama head.

I'm mostly on RR so if I somehow forget to post back here you can hunt me down over there! Lol

[OICU812]

I thought about those, bending rod is not something I want to do, I like things aligned perfectly, plus I jsut don't like the idea..., was thinking about shaving rotor hub then thought that is crazy, this thing is new and they say it can do the range I shouldn't need to modify anything imho. No room to add a washer to bring out the swash balls, so that is a no go. I would simply buy a Xero G swash without hesitation if that would solve it but,,,,,, problem is this is a 90 degree swash not 120,,, oh the pains,,,,:( :bomb:

[TonyTypeS]

Oh yea I just remembered that. The stock swash does not have any room to add spacers. Darn. Yup the kasama head is just to good looking to shave off some stuff.

hm... Century has a swsh that might work.

But you know, when I first got my kasama head I flew it with the binding at negative pitch and didn't notice a problem. I have heard one person had theirs pop off in flight so I wanted to be on the safe side and got the zero G swash. With my beginner's collective pitch managment who knows what can pop off. Lol
I bet as long as you don't combine full pitch with full cyclic you shouldn't have any problems

Anyone have any other suggestions? Come on Think! Think! :arggg:

[TonyTypeS]

Now before I go to sleep I was thinking if maybe Kasama could change one thing about the rotor hub. If they shave off about 1-2mm from the problem spot then the binding problem would not exsist. 1-2mm should not weaken the rotor hub at all and would allow more pitch and cyclic. I don't see how. :roll:
:badair: I'm gone for the night

[ClayK]

I have +- 13 pitch and 7 cyclic. I'll take pictures today if you want.

[OICU812]

I would love to see it with the stcck Raptor swash, can't happen, and remember as I said Outer hole on short side, and inner hole on long side this is the fastest selection apparently for cyclic speed. Yes Tony as you said shave some off there on the headblock or,,,,position the top mixer closer to head on the short side which would bring it out on the long side allowing room.

[simon53]

i hope you can sort out the problem with the kasama head... i just ordered one

[OICU812]

Well they "Kasama" assured me they would source a solution. Alot of people who have commented on being able to acheive over 11 collective and over 6.5 cyclic in the past have been running Xero G swashes or Century swashes and on different helis. I am specifically speaking of the "stock" Raptor swash for the 90 Deg CCPM configuration which exists on the ERaptor 620 as well as the SE and Titan.

[simon53]

i hope they do.. like you im running a stock rapter swash.. l

[ClayK]

Here's pitch. Too hard to take pictures by myself and work the sticks..

There's no binding, it's a stock swash.

[TonyTypeS]

ClayK
Can you go full negative and give full cyclic. I forgot if it's alleron or elevator depending on which way the blades are facing, but you will get binding. Try to teather the flybar back and forth. The long links will bind with the head and you will see that it puts strain on the servos

[ClayK]

Full negative, no binding anywhere.

Full positive and the pitch link touches the washout arm, but it's not significant.

Both were done with full right and left aileron. Both were then done with full up and back elevator. When the pitch link touched, just barely, the washout arm was on full positive collective with full up elevator and full right aileron. The pitch arm doesn't bind the movement of the rotor head assembly. Since I'm never in the corners for anything, no problems.

[OICU812]

Ok show me a picture of the top mixer arm, again if I am on the outside holes this is not an issue, it is when you go inner hole on long side and outer hole on short side then you can "NOT" have this. I am a broken record yes, lol. Clay I am sure you are running outside hole on the long side.....

[OICU812]

Here is a pic with the balls on "outisde" location on the long side, this way there is no issue, however this is my point I am trying to make which no one has shown me, you can not get the fast roll rate this way as advertised. Kasama advertises that the fastest cyclic available comes from having outer hole on short, inner on long, again no one I have seen "yet" is actually able to get 12-13 and 7 cyclic with these settings on the stock swash. Even with the outside hole mount the top link "barely" avoids contact with the main hub, here is a pic of that. If I see proof of no binding with the ball on the inside on long side I will then assume my head has been mis machined as for me it is impossible to work...

[ClayK]

I have my top links on the outer ball. Hmm, I haven't tried the inner ball yet...

[OICU812]

Put your link on the inside on long side clay, you'll see what I mean right away.

[maxime]

I don't understand how you get +-13 on your standard heli(no modified frames) when I only get +-11 with my stock raptor mixing levers, which are the same ratio and distances as the Kasama mixing levers.

32mm from outer hole to center of pivoting bearing on the long side, and 14.5mm on the short side(center of bearing to outside ball hole).

however, the standard raptor mixing levers are a bit offset. the connecting line between the 2 ball links doesn't go through the center of the pivoting bearing on the raptor, but it does on the Kasama

[TonyTypeS]

here a pic of the stock arms vs. the Kasama. You can clearly see the difference as they are not the same.

Kasama arms:
-On the long side if you leave the ball on the outter hole it will give you the same cyclic as the stock arms. When you move the ball to the inner hole on the long side you will gain more cyclic.
-On the short side if you leave the ball on the inner hole you will have the same pitch as the stock arms. When you move the balls to the outter hole on the short side you will gain more pitch.

With the stock arms you can gain more cyclics by drilling a new hole on the long side to achieve more cyclics but one thing you can not do is get more pitch because the short side is not long enough .

Im not an expert, but Im sure someone else can explain it more clearly than me :D Lol

[OICU812]

Like I said before yes you can obtain 14-16 deg collective, and maybe 9 cyclic, but do it on the inside hole on long side "so called extreme setting" and it will not happen, not one person has shown this proof with stock Raptor swash, not one. If you want to run the outside balls you are fine but I certainly did not find the roll faster at all, even with the lightest paddles I could mount.

[r1sportbike]

G-Force head allows + and - 15 with absolutely no binding. What pic would you like me to take for proof?

It is also more responsive than the Kasama head.

[OICU812]

r1sportbike, I know it does, wish I had gone that route from start.

[HeliSat]

Has anyone tried using the G-Force Mixer Arms on other heads? I am interested in trying them my QuickUK head, but I am not too sure if they will fit inside the flybar frame. Any ideas?? :dontknow

[simon53]

could anybody tell me the web site for G-FORCE heads ect